SG and BW ratings thus far...

Supergirl leads all shows in live + 7 lifts across all networks.

link here

@Romulus, I think that the issues with Justice League go way deeper than different interpretations of some same characters.

From what I've been hearing about DC Comics and their own internal relationships, there is a major growth effort get more teams talking and more characters shared. Think of Crisis, we will literally be seeing multiple version of Superman and I think the audience is excited for it, not confused by it.

Fun anecdote told to press only at NYCC (which Kelsey and I have a representative at, ha, we're growing), Warner Brothers TV was developing a Joker origin story show and didn't know DC Entertainment was developing a Joker origin story movie. This really started the new push for internal communication and a renewed want to share characters and allow new interpretations. Harley Quinn's animated show will really push boundaries in a new way.

Supergirl leads all shows in live + 7 lifts across all networks.

link here

Sooooo I guess that means those no watching live because of that dreadful suit that has ruined the show for good, are simply watching later?????? *insert sarcasm* throughout.

Both shows have been solid after the initial drop, at 0.3 and 0.2.

If I was a CW exec, I would take those numbers on a given weeknight. For Sunday night, they are even better.

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Which proves the famous quote (mistakenly) attributed to P.T. Barnum is bang-on accurate. Care for another round of Kool-Aid?!

Considering there is not a scripted show on Sunday nights that is getting above a 0.8, not sure anyone is drinking Kool-aid, unless it is those that believe Live viewing numbers are giving them real data.

I'm going to weigh in here. Recently, with the rather large expansion of the sites and shows that Kelsey and I cover, I have been exploring a much larger community of entertainment reporting. I'm getting to know the players, the leakers, the well informed, and the click-baiters.

I have gained a LOT of new sources and contacts and can surprisingly say that I feel like I am a bit more of an informed reporter these days. For those interested on my takes on the larger DC landscape follow me personally on Twitter @EricJohnstonDC. I've seen episodes of Titans that aren't out yet, I've been able to keep pulse on the entire Arrowverse with some powerful press credentials and I've made some industry sources in various locations.

From what I've seen, Cosmic-Book.news is not reliable in the least. They will make up as many stores as they can, if even one sticks, they claim they were in the know all along. I put no value in their reporting and I would encourage all of us to not feel the need to link them at all here. There are other sites that fall into this category but I'm not looking to call people out, I mention them because they have been listed in this thread.

Additionally, let us look at the field as a whole. The CW used to get 0$ on Sunday nights from their new programming because it didn't exist. They relied on syndicated shows that didn't bring in nearly the same revenue Batwoman and Supergirl do. Additionally, Batwoman and the other Arrowverse shows (once the Netflix deal is up) will move to HBO Max exclusively for streaming purposes after the show's broadcast completion. This model is meant to drive up HBO max subscribers and with Warner Brother's owning it all, The CW sits quite happily taking a cut.

Finally, the Arrowverse, even while it is changing, is arguably the best Comic-Based shows on TV. There is not a subscription required to view, and with the changing market on TV, Live +7 means more than Live at all. The resale value of the Arrowverse is much more potent than any traditional ratings system.

Frankly, as long as Grant, Melissa and Ruby wish to stay in their roles, the shows will continue to be made. Syndication, streaming services, resale, collector editions and so on make these properties a gold mine. Not to mention the action figures, statues, pop figures and all other merchandise coming from the Arrowverse.

The DCEU is a mess and is now starting to find more success in these one offs like Joker than it did in the Marvel model. For incredible joined and linked stories, look no further than the Arrowverse. Also for those saying Supergirl needs to end so they can make their DCEU Movie, Why wasn't Smallville axed when Brandon Routh's Superman returns was made.

Ok I'll get off my soap box.

Tv Line and TV By The Numbers are legitimate sites and have only reported facts about the ratings.

Cosmic Book News is not a legitimate website and has written their article with a clickbait-driven agenda.

More evidence the sky is not falling: https://batwoman.tv/batwoman-receives-full-season-order

More evidence the sky is not falling: https://batwoman.tv/batwoman-receives-full-season-order

I guess that's what meant by a strong lead-in...well CW wise.

The L+7 ratings do not indicate people are simply watching it later, it could be the same people that watched it live watching again for all you know. How do the numbers compare from previous seasons.

FACT: Every single episode that Supergirl wore the skirt had over 1 million live viewers
FACT: Every single episode that Supergirl no longer wears the skirt had had less then 1 million live viewers. And those numbers are falling. Maybe some people just never removed the series from the record list.

The new costume is ugly. You can find a number of comicbook fan sites that hate it, but of course we all have to be sexist, because there is no other reason than we just prefer the classic look.

As much money as the network has, you would think it could invest in heaters that could help her situation so she didn't have to freeze while filming.

You're choosing two facts that fit YOUR argument, and ignoring the other facts. As I already mentioned, every other show on the network has had comparable declines in live+same day viewership, to the point that Supergirl's rank among the CW shows sits around where it's consistently been.

Moreover, your using this thread to revive the issue of the new suit. Again. It's not needed, and it's a discussion that's been beaten to death.

Your points would be valid, if it was the only show on CW facing these sort of declines. But as I've now iterated, at least twice, it's not. Literally every show has faced a similar decline.

Here is the breakdown of the Live+7 ratings, as pulled from the link Rschick supplied:

Ratings in the 18-49 demographic:

The Flash: .94
Batwoman: .59
Riverdale: .58
Supergirl: .54
Supernatural: .53
Arrow: .51
Legacies: .50
Charmed: .43
All American: .43
Nancy Drew: .37
Black Lightning:.35
Dynasty: .20

Ratings in viewership:

The Flash: 2.453
Batwoman: 2.135
Supernatural: 1.936
Supergirl: 1.784
Riverdale: 1.528
Legacies: 1.473
Nancy Drew: 1.448
Arrow: 1.421
Charmed: 1.319
All American: 1.195
Black Lightning:0.967
Dynasty: 0.630



Supergirl is ranked 4th in both.

The article is obviously slanted, but the numbers seem to match what I've seen elsewhere.

How much that matters? Charmed premiered with 0.2. Dynasty premiered with a 0.1. Granted that was on Friday’s "Slots of Zero Expectations," but kdogg87 is correct. Overnights don't matter all that much in terms of renewal. They can serve as an overall gauge of interest, however--and BW lost a good chunk off the bat. (heh heh) That is kind of normal, though. Not everyone that checks a hyped new show out finds it to their liking. (I certainly didn't. After two episodes, I'm pretty confident in saying it just isn't my thing.)

In general, live TV ratings have eroded across the board. On the CW, a typical show (i.e., not "The Flash" seems to be doing just fine if it remains within 0.1 or so of its previous year. I suspect SG is in no real danger.

Realistically, I think many people who would have left over SG's political/social take likely did so during season 2, which IRRC, suffered a larger than ususal dropoff over the course of the year. I think the remaining audience is either on board with the messaging or has a fair degree of tolerance for opposing viewpoints.

The sky is not (yet) falling for either of the Sunday shows.

It's too early in the game. Some of the shows haven't even premiered, yet. That, and live+same day numbers have minimal impact at CW. They consider online and streaming viewership far more than other networks. On top of that, have to admit that Supergirl is in a very tough night and timeslot.

A recent survey did, however, reveal that Supergirl was the most "binged" Arrowverse show.

Again, we'll see where things land, down the line. It seems there is a panic about ratings at the beginning of every new season.

Also: The site that posted the article is notoriously unreliable.

kdogg, you're right. We are only TWO episodes into this season. Let's see about 1/4 of the way...episode 5 or 6

But, Rom also brings up this...

Admittedly and truthfully, alienating a portion of the fanbase on a consistent basis is certainly a way to lose viewership.

I think in the minds of some fans, there is still some remnants of season 4 and its in essence promoting of open borders and so-called "tolerance" done in a ham handed way, and to some the taste is so sour, they have given up.

That said, the article may be clickbait...and I myself will not go to it.

Critical eye is definitely the best way to read articles of this type, reading it with bias only makes the echo chamber smaller and louder.

@Romulus, I think that the issues with Justice League go way deeper than different interpretations of some same characters.

Totally on point. Seemed to me like there were different interpretations of the same characters within the movie.

From what I've been hearing about DC Comics and their own internal relationships, there is a major growth effort get more teams talking and more characters shared. Think of Crisis, we will literally be seeing multiple version of Superman and I think the audience is excited for it, not confused by it.

I think general audiences (i.e., not just comic book nerds like me) are more sophisticated and willing to accept things like multiverses, alternate timelines, and just different interpretations of a character than they were, say, 10 years ago. The Phoenix Joker standalone is proof of that I think, coming relatively soon after Leto's take in Suicide Squad.

Fun anecdote told to press only at NYCC (which Kelsey and I have a representative at, ha, we're growing), Warner Brothers TV was developing a Joker origin story show and didn't know DC Entertainment was developing a Joker origin story movie. This really started the new push for internal communication and a renewed want to share characters and allow new interpretations. Harley Quinn's animated show will really push boundaries in a new way.

As a longtime fan of both characters, I gotta say--I'm kinda "Joker-and-Harleyed" out.

@Romulus, I think that the issues with Justice League go way deeper than different interpretations of some same characters.

From what I've been hearing about DC Comics and their own internal relationships, there is a major growth effort get more teams talking and more characters shared. Think of Crisis, we will literally be seeing multiple version of Superman and I think the audience is excited for it, not confused by it.

Fun anecdote told to press only at NYCC (which Kelsey and I have a representative at, ha, we're growing), Warner Brothers TV was developing a Joker origin story show and didn't know DC Entertainment was developing a Joker origin story movie. This really started the new push for internal communication and a renewed want to share characters and allow new interpretations. Harley Quinn's animated show will really push boundaries in a new way.

Let me address a couple of things in the Admin's post, particularly the last paragraph...

1...the movie Joker is a hit, a big hit.

2...In terms of the Harley Quinn animated project, I saw an interview with the voice of Harley Quinn none other than Kaley Cuoco (from the recently ended Big Bang Theory) on the new Kelly Clarkson Show. And let me tell you, HQ is nothing at all like Penny. Kaley admits dropping some F-bombs is therapy for her.

3..Great to know there is an SG.TV rep that goes to NY Comic Con.

Romulus they Can easily be optained on programinsider.com. Its not an opinion its FACTS.

Its nr 3-4 of ALL their shows. I know what i am talking about. You are not helping with this fear mongering even the site owner here say its not in any danger at all.

Do you see the other CW shows they get 0.2-0.3 on EASIER timeslot than SG. How do you really Think they would do against SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL, WALKING DEAD, CABLE SHOWS FROM HBO ect.. plus normal network competition.

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Thank you, starlord. Had you done this (provide a link and backing facts in your initial posting) to refute the initial links / claims that were posted, we wouldn't need to have this debate ad nauseum. This is what informed debate should look like.

And, no one here is claiming the shows are getting canned. All we are saying is the general perception and basic viewership numbers aren't great. How people interpret that is their own take on things.

So, please, when posting statements like your initial one, in future, kindly provide links and counter-evidence for everyone to discuss. Since the site Admin has provided more context and clarity to the situation (thank you, Admin), we are ALL in a better position to assess how things are.

Again, I repeat, and I'm not being facetious or condescending here, this is what an informed debate should look like.

Be at ease, starlord. I am not predicting disaster.

It is just that I would have thought SG would have retained more of BW audience, given the "World's Finest" treatment. In theory, they should pair well.

As I have said consistently here and elsewhere, CW's business model de-emphasizes ratings, particularly overnights.

I agree the show will continue as long as it makes money and Melissa is willing to play the role.

Good thing overnights don't matter.

Batwoman seems to have stabilized for the moment, but Supergirl dropped again.

I'm wondering if there is less shared audience between the two than was presumed. They are very different in tone.

Side note: If CW releases streaming data for its app, I remain unaware of it. That would provide a more complete picture.

I tried Batwoman. The acoustics were less than ideal. I have perfectly good hearing, and could not understand a fair part of what the characters were saying. They mumbled. The flashbacks led to a more complex pot; I would have run Batwoman later in the evening than Supergirl.

Supergirl is appreciably better this year than last year. The soap opera segments of the plot appear to be fading. The heroine rescues the lesser characters instead of the other way around. This year the music has not been so loud as to drown out the conversation.

I tried Batwoman. The acoustics were less than ideal. I have perfectly good hearing, and could not understand a fair part of what the characters were saying. They mumbled. The flashbacks led to a more complex pot; I would have run Batwoman later in the evening than Supergirl.

Supergirl is appreciably better this year than last year. The soap opera segments of the plot appear to be fading. The heroine rescues the lesser characters instead of the other way around. This year the music has not been so loud as to drown out the conversation.

Yep. So far so good.