This is a bit of a risky post, but hear me out. I feel the taboo against discussion of politics could be unnecessary, because after all, political views form a very large part of how people think and exclusion of its discussion hides a large part of our interpretation of entertainment media.
The show itself is political, so in my opinion if we're not allowed to discuss it in relation to our own political thought, a lot of what we think about the show is omitted.
From early days I've been actively curious of the political background of the members here and how that influences what they think of elements of Supergirl CW. I hope this thread, if it doesn't get deleted, will be a non-judgemental place for people to share.
To reduce the chance of this post being deleted:
- Try to relate to the how it impacts your viewing of Supergirl CW
- Don't debate against "opposing" views. Think of this as a survey of sorts
- Be civil thanks
I hadn't planned on contributing anything more than my original ideas a couple of weeks ago, but there are a couple of things that keep coming up that I'd like to make observations about.
1) I am quite fascinated by the fixation that some people have on the need for clear or precise labels. While this can be a helpful shortcut at some times, it can also be less helpful at other times.
I personally refuse to identify myself with a specific political label, and that isn't about not being able to commit to something, but rather that I am flexible, to a certain point.
As noted in my earlier submission, I have voted for every major political party at one time or another. However, with only one choice on the right side of the political scene here in Canada, and three choices on the left side, I have way more 'liberal' choices than voters in the States do. And with each election, based on what is of interest to all voters at that time, I look at what each party is offering as their platform at that time; and, even as a 'lefty' for many years now, based on what they are offering, the three or four candidates I can choose from have to earn my vote. This isn't about not being able to make a commitment to a specific political label or designation, but rather about using my vote as carefully as I can at each election.
And if this means not labeling myself, then I can't see why that should be a problem to anyone else.
2) The other item that I wanted to comment on has to do with the several references that have been made to comic-book heroes battling the Nazis (and their "Axis" allies) back in the 1940's. But back then most of the world was at war, and fighting against what was a very real threat to the freedom of the whole world in general. (My own father served in the RCN during that war, so it has some historical meaning for me.) And with literally tens of millions of young men from dozens of "Allied" nations rallying against the Nazis and their allies, it really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the comic-book heroes of the day were openly against the Axis enemies of the free world too.
However, most of the conflicts that are going on in the world today, however horrific they are for those people and civilians directly caught up in them, are very localized 'civil wars' that do not have huge armies and navies and air forces from dozens of nations massed against each other.
Indeed, the wars that are being waged in America today are not military in nature, but rather philosophical and ideological. And while people can, and should, speak up for where they stand on those issues, it isn't like the Second World War, where which side the comic-book super-heroes were on was never in question; so I find the comparison interesting, but not really as compelling as some others might find it.
And to get back to what this topic was supposed to be about - how personal politics influences how each of us view a TV show, and not just this one - I'd like to quote kdogg87:
"I think fictional media do their best takes on social issues when they make it an allegory, and leave it up to the audience, child and adult alike, to draw those comparisons to the real world. When this is done correctly, a viewer feels like they are learning, but doesn't feel like they are being preached to."
Although I tried to say something similar earlier, kdogg87 put it much better.
Despite the differences of opinions expressed on the Forum, on a wide number of topics, there is something that I have always believed in, and that is that we are all fans of this show and care about it greatly, regardless of whether it is our number 1 favourite, or just one of them. And because of that, all of the criticism that is offered is constructive in nature, and with the desire to see this show be the best that it can be.
I continue to be impressed by the many different points of view being offered by contributors to this particular topic, and look forward to reading many more. As long as we can keep it civil towards each other, then we can all learn from others.
1) I am quite fascinated by the fixation that some people have on the need for clear or precise labels. While this can be a helpful shortcut at some times, it can also be less helpful at other times.
I personally refuse to identify myself with a specific political label, and that isn't about not being able to commit to something, but rather that I am flexible, to a certain point.
As noted in my earlier submission, I have voted for every major political party at one time or another. However, with only one choice on the right side of the political scene here in Canada, and three choices on the left side, I have way more 'liberal' choices than voters in the States do. And with each election, based on what is of interest to all voters at that time, I look at what each party is offering as their platform at that time; and, even as a 'lefty' for many years now, based on what they are offering, the three or four candidates I can choose from have to earn my vote. This isn't about not being able to make a commitment to a specific political label or designation, but rather about using my vote as carefully as I can at each election.
And if this means not labeling myself, then I can't see why that should be a problem to anyone else.
2) The other item that I wanted to comment on has to do with the several references that have been made to comic-book heroes battling the Nazis (and their "Axis" allies) back in the 1940's. But back then most of the world was at war, and fighting against what was a very real threat to the freedom of the whole world in general. (My own father served in the RCN during that war, so it has some historical meaning for me.) And with literally tens of millions of young men from dozens of "Allied" nations rallying against the Nazis and their allies, it really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the comic-book heroes of the day were openly against the Axis enemies of the free world too.
However, most of the conflicts that are going on in the world today, however horrific they are for those people and civilians directly caught up in them, are very localized 'civil wars' that do not have huge armies and navies and air forces from dozens of nations massed against each other.
Indeed, the wars that are being waged in America today are not military in nature, but rather philosophical and ideological. And while people can, and should, speak up for where they stand on those issues, it isn't like the Second World War, where which side the comic-book super-heroes were on was never in question; so I find the comparison interesting, but not really as compelling as some others might find it.
And to get back to what this topic was supposed to be about - how personal politics influences how each of us view a TV show, and not just this one - I'd like to quote kdogg87:
"I think fictional media do their best takes on social issues when they make it an allegory, and leave it up to the audience, child and adult alike, to draw those comparisons to the real world. When this is done correctly, a viewer feels like they are learning, but doesn't feel like they are being preached to."
Although I tried to say something similar earlier, kdogg87 put it much better.
Despite the differences of opinions expressed on the Forum, on a wide number of topics, there is something that I have always believed in, and that is that we are all fans of this show and care about it greatly, regardless of whether it is our number 1 favourite, or just one of them. And because of that, all of the criticism that is offered is constructive in nature, and with the desire to see this show be the best that it can be.
I continue to be impressed by the many different points of view being offered by contributors to this particular topic, and look forward to reading many more. As long as we can keep it civil towards each other, then we can all learn from others.
Comic books were used early on to push back against Fascism.
Especially Superman and Captain America, and I even think Wonder Woman got involved getting after The Axis Powers. I have in my vast DVD collection the first Batman serial from Columbia. The bat outfits look silly by today's standard, but, their enemy was deadly...Professor Daka, portrayed as someone who idolized Japanese dictator Hirohito. Of course on TV WW Season 1 had her battling Nazis and the like. And George Reeves' Superman went after mostly the mob.
Yep. In fact, Wonder Woman's first appearance featured the WW2 era slogan, "Keep 'em flying!"
But...let me bring up another character. This one with my golden age of radio collection. Namely one Britt Reid...THE GREEN HORNET! During WWII, The Hornet not just battled Nazis, but the underworld of racketeers and saboteurs. After WWII and until its 1952 ending, Reid and his faithful valet Kato battled the Red Scare of communism as well as the underworld.
Loved the Green Hornet radio show. IMO, not as awesome as the Shadow, but still great. Reid was related to the Lone Ranger. Something like his brother's grandson?
Comic books were used early on to push back against Fascism.
Especially Superman and Captain America, and I even think Wonder Woman got involved getting after The Axis Powers. I have in my vast DVD collection the first Batman serial from Columbia. The bat outfits look silly by today's standard, but, their enemy was deadly...Professor Daka, portrayed as someone who idolized Japanese dictator Hirohito. Of course on TV WW Season 1 had her battling Nazis and the like. And George Reeves' Superman went after mostly the mob.
The radio show had Supes go after nazis as well as Luthor.
But...let me bring up another character. This one with my golden age of radio collection. Namely one Britt Reid...THE GREEN HORNET! During WWII, The Hornet not just battled Nazis, but the underworld of racketeers and saboteurs. After WWII and until its 1952 ending, Reid and his faithful valet Kato battled the Red Scare of communism as well as the underworld.
Stargirl may be a better fit for some, and that's cool. But if it follows the central characters core beliefs and furthers the plot, more power to it. If it doesn't then I will respectfully let the writer's know my thoughts.
Well after about 8 or 9 episodes I should say that StG is a better fit for me anyway as it reminds me of like the first seasons of Supergirl and The Flash. StG has gotten a second season, but all on the CW. I have seen postings online worrying about the quality of the show and the budget...myself included. But as long as it's in Geoff Johns' hands and despite the worries about Covid-19 in GA, things should be fine.
IF one holds the ideals of a true Libertarian, in that, they actually know what that label means and stands for. BY ALL MEANS raise that title as your own. What I have seen from many however is to use that title in such a way as to say, I'm for neither party......BUT... and then they go on to fall right with Conservative, right wing, evangelical ideology. That is all I'm saying....if you have ideals, you stand ok n certain ideology, then be proud of that no matter where you may fall on the political spectrum. As for a tv show following certain ideology....it is a creative endeavor and if it pushes one direction, it is the right of the show runners to do so as long as the advertisers are happy with what they are doing then more power to them. Myself as a fan do not feel entitled as to think thg hey should follow a neutral stance as to not hurt feelings. If I am so strongly against a private entity, I take eff my viewing, my business elsewhere....
I do see your point. In fairness, getting a group of radical individualists to agree on a common platform is problematic. If you ask 100 Libertarians what a true Libertarian is, you're likely to get 150 different answers.
I agree that it is absolutely the showrunners' prerogative to advocate as they see fit. I have greatly enjoyed shows that I have profound differences with. (For example, Legends of Tomorrow paid homage to Obama in "Guest Starring John Noble." Now I don't hold nearly as high an opinion of him, but I found the episode freakin' hilarious. "Run, Barry, run." OMG!
) The bottom line is not whether they are telling a relevant story that I agree with as much as whether are they telling an entertaining story. Increasingly, I find they are not. Part of that is the manner in which they handle social and political issues. kdogg87 speaks for me in that a larger part is the continued marginalization of the "main" character. For me personally most of my life I had a sense that whichever party was in charge things were going to be ok. I haven’t felt that way in three and a half years.
I agree. Under normal circumstances, I too have felt that things would be OK regardless of which party was in power. Like you, the last 3-1/2 years have changed that sense in me. We are not in normal circumstances. We are in one of the most dangerous periods in our history, certainly in my 70 years. We all value balance and may want to treat this election as any other, but No. This isn't a typical contest between two parties debating tax rates, spending priorities, and the like. This is about defending liberty for all, truth, justice, competence, decency, tolerance, and much more. These are things that Supergirl champions, so I'm OK with the show taking a stand.
By contrast, I haven't felt that way in over twenty years. With each passing election, I'm more disheartened by the available candidates.
I don't ask that people agree with that assessment, but if you can understand it, you may see why portraying Supergirl as a staunch Democrat would turn my stomach as much as if she were portrayed as Republican.
I am a mix of fiscal conservative and progressive/liberal ideology.
Sometimes I think Supergirls get a bit bogged down by the weight of its social messages and could lighten up a bit. But, it actually bothers me more that it bothers others to such an extreme degree.
To use an example, I personally did not feel the Dreamer episode Reality Bites was that heavy handed. I thought the show balanced it with a secondary story involving Alex's investigation into VR. I felt if you did not like one, you probably liked the other. I thought this was a good story to tell and to be told through Dreamer was the way to go. Plus, I love Dreamer's roommate. Others felt differently, but I think the main complaint by many was that it was a Supergirl-lite episode.
At the end of the day, many just want to escape the news and be entertained by a good action, super hero hour. So, while I would never want Supergirl to totally abandon its progressive social conscience, as that truly defines Kara, I wouldn't mind if it played for straight fun superhero action a little more frequently.
You pinpointed my feelings on this episode, exactly. I complained because I want Supergirl to be about Kara/Supergirl. But aside from that complaint, I cannot deny it was a really good episode, and one of the stronger episodes of the season.
As much as I complain about the last 2 years of Supergirl (and it's a lot), it MOSTLY stems from too many supporting characters, and Supergirl having a "team" that end up taking a really large part of the focus AND action. This is not a unique problem, though, as both Arrow and The Flash has suffered from similar problems in their later seasons.
As for political concerns, with the show...I don't identify with any party. When I vote, I vote based on my personal beliefs. But I'll admit that those beliefs typically land on the liberal side. Even so, I think fictional media do their best takes on social issues when they make it an allegory, and leave it up to the audience, child and adult alike, to draw those comparisons to the real world. When this is done correctly, a viewer feels like they are learning, but doesn't feel like they are being preached to. Star Wars being anti-Fascist with the Empire being inspired by the Third Reich. The X-Men being an allegory for racism in America. Star Trek being about equality for all genders, races, but focused under the fantastical light of alien worlds and cultures.
Maybe it's just the times we are living in, but I feel Supergirl isn't great at finding that balance. Season 4 was about anti-immigrant sentiment, and dealt with a puppet president, who was in the pocket of a madman who was also manipulating a fictional country that was CLEARLY based on Russia. To anyone alive in this day and age...that was a REALLY thin metaphor, whether or not you agree with the real world comparisons. When the metaphors are that thin, they feel tactless and preachy. And I'm saying that as a liberal...
I have no problem with the messages Supergirl sends. What I have a problem with is the way they send it. And I hope writing improves to address these issues.
I'll admit, I find myself wondering how later seasons (especially 4) would have differed if the 2016 election had gone another direction. The real world inspiration literally wouldn't have been there for a good portion of it.
I am a mix of fiscal conservative and progressive/liberal ideology.
Sometimes I think Supergirls get a bit bogged down by the weight of its social messages and could lighten up a bit. But, it actually bothers me more that it bothers others to such an extreme degree.
To use an example, I personally did not feel the Dreamer episode Reality Bites was that heavy handed. I thought the show balanced it with a secondary story involving Alex's investigation into VR. I felt if you did not like one, you probably liked the other. I thought this was a good story to tell and to be told through Dreamer was the way to go. Plus, I love Dreamer's roommate. Others felt differently, but I think the main complaint by many was that it was a Supergirl-lite episode.
At the end of the day, many just want to escape the news and be entertained by a good action, super hero hour. So, while I would never want Supergirl to totally abandon its progressive social conscience, as that truly defines Kara, I wouldn't mind if it played for straight fun superhero action a little more frequently.
Supergirl can always use more Supergirl action......they haven't had enough of that for me since Season 1....I don't think political ideology had anything to do with that...?
Profile Pic by https://twitter.com/samayerswrites
IF one holds the ideals of a true Libertarian, in that, they actually know what that label means and stands for. BY ALL MEANS raise that title as your own. What I have seen from many however is to use that title in such a way as to say, I'm for neither party......BUT... and then they go on to fall right with Conservative, right wing, evangelical ideology. That is all I'm saying....if you have ideals, you stand ok n certain ideology, then be proud of that no matter where you may fall on the political spectrum. As for a tv show following certain ideology....it is a creative endeavor and if it pushes one direction, it is the right of the show runners to do so as long as the advertisers are happy with what they are doing then more power to them. Myself as a fan do not feel entitled as to think thg hey should follow a neutral stance as to not hurt feelings. If I am so strongly against a private entity, I take eff my viewing, my business elsewhere....
Profile Pic by https://twitter.com/samayerswrites
For me personally most of my life I had a sense that whichever party was in charge things were going to be ok. I haven’t felt that way in three and a half years.
I agree. Under normal circumstances, I too have felt that things would be OK regardless of which party was in power. Like you, the last 3-1/2 years have changed that sense in me. We are not in normal circumstances. We are in one of the most dangerous periods in our history, certainly in my 70 years. We all value balance and may want to treat this election as any other, but No. This isn't a typical contest between two parties debating tax rates, spending priorities, and the like. This is about defending liberty for all, truth, justice, competence, decency, tolerance, and much more. These are things that Supergirl champions, so I'm OK with the show taking a stand.
LP Fun discussion
I read an column recently that said almost everything has become part of one big "political deathmatch."”political deathmatch” that’s a perfect description of the current climate. In the current climate I think it would be a challenge to write a compelling antagonist, someone who’s more than a one off, without a perceived political component. Perhaps the group could have fun brainstorming a compelling antagonist with the lowest Political Deathmatch factor.
I'll simply say that on some of these issues, a previous administration may have benefited from a press and entertainment industry that were--shall I say--content with the party in charge. Were they so inclined, they would have noticed some behavior that by their own standards was pretty reprehensible.I can’t disagree with this assessment but don’t think that’s all that’s in play. I certainly don’t harbor any illusions that any politician/political party is always right and hasn’t done bad things. For me personally most of my life I had a sense that whichever party was in charge things were going to be ok. I haven’t felt that way in three and a half years. But in that same timeframe there have been some positive changes, people doing bad things are being held accountable even in the entertainment industry. One of the original EPs on this show was rightfully fired.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
Brierrose, you'd probably be surprised at how much I agree with your analysis.
I read an column recently that said almost everything has become part of one big "political deathmatch."
Where I do disagree with you, I don't want to be too combative, especially while treading on real world politics.
I'll simply say that on some of these issues, a previous administration may have benefited from a press and entertainment industry that were--shall I say--content with the party in charge. Were they so inclined, they would have noticed some behavior that by their own standards was pretty reprehensible.
So when Kara overtly aligns with a certain party, I am disappointed. She deserves better than to be a partisan shill.
But that's the way the deathmatch is played.
I read an column recently that said almost everything has become part of one big "political deathmatch."
Where I do disagree with you, I don't want to be too combative, especially while treading on real world politics.
I'll simply say that on some of these issues, a previous administration may have benefited from a press and entertainment industry that were--shall I say--content with the party in charge. Were they so inclined, they would have noticed some behavior that by their own standards was pretty reprehensible.
So when Kara overtly aligns with a certain party, I am disappointed. She deserves better than to be a partisan shill.
But that's the way the deathmatch is played.
LP you are correct in labeling yourself a Libertarian. My personal experience with people who label themselves as Libertarian has been very much like Kelly's. People who for whatever reason don't want to label themselves as Progressive, Left Wing, Conservative, Right Wing, Evangelical, atheist, ect. Be who you are and proud of it. Some of the best people I know don't think exactly as I do, they're good people because they listen and aren't afraid to change their mind when presented with a different point of view. Yes, I have changed my own point of view as a result of a discussion with a friend. I've also changed someone's mind, I think the key to that is my goal was a thoughtful discussion not changing their mind.
My opinion is no less or more valid because I am a Libertarian, and I have made no such claim. Nor is it an "excuse."
In my past, I have been at times both a Democrat and Republican. Right now, by any reasonable definition, I am a Libertarian. I am registered to vote with the Libertarian Party. I pay yearly dues to my state and federal party. Though I do have certain disagreements with the party platform, I am very much for leaving people the heck alone to live their lives as they see fit, unless there is a compelling reason not to do so. It is my point of view, and people can certainly disagree with it. But I hold it as deeply as any dyed in the wool conservative or "social justice warrior" here.
I do think it crosses a line to advocate for or against a particular candidate as Supergirl the show has. It is my opinion that characters like Superman, Captain America, and the like--those who more openly stand for ideals--should not be portrayed as partisan in that way. It takes away from the unifying power of the characters (by that I mean in the real world, not the fictional one), by hitching their ideals to very, very flawed people.The only character who's named dropped real people or even a US political party is Cat. It’s fascinating to me that Cat is the most overtly political character to appear on the show yet she’s universally loved. I don’t believe for a second that if Calista had agreed to move the character would’ve become less political. I can’t help but wonder if part of why Cat is still loved to spite being so political is because at least in the US the most extreme polarization happened after she left. In other words would Cat telling Kara to make sure a job applicant was a Democrat be seen the same way now as it was in late 2015 to early 2016. There've been two President's on the show both presumably Democrats and we only know/think that because of Cat. We know President Marsden was a Democrat because Cat said so and being her VP we can assume President Baker was too. I didn't see Marsden as Hilary Clinton anymore than I saw Baker as Trump.
I think a big reason why some of what Supergirl depicts is labeled political is because in the US things have become so polarized that ideals that shouldn't be politized have become so. Look at how wearing a mask has become a defacto statement of political alignment instead if showing you care about the health of others and yourself. If Kara's ideals stem from her motto I would argue that at this time in history in the US those ideals are in alignment with one party much more so than the other. The man who beat Yvette because she's transgender was to most people's minds a criminal but recently the US Supreme court was asked to rule if LGBTQ people could be discriminated against in the workplace. The only reason that question was even brought up was because discrimination based on sexual orientation is supported by some vocal people in the Republican party while the Democratic party in it's platform is against it. That Kara would be against any type of discrimination would fit with her ideals but some viewers might associate the man who beat up Yvette with the Republican party because right now that association isn't totally incorrect. I would argue that Ben Lockwood's/Agent Liberty's nativist ideas would go against Kara's ideals. At this time there are people in the Republican party who describe themselves as nativists I haven't heard a member of the Democratic party describe themselves as nativist. If a Democrat said/did something that ran counter to Kara's ideals it should be fair game.
Kara has been shown as a unifying figure. Her “hope” speeches are the definition of unifying. In S4E2 she told the protesters on both sides to listen to each other. In that same episode she gave a speech backing the new President. Part of the reason she did that was to spite her personal feelings and public backing of President Marsden she thought it was important to show private and public support for Baker because Kara’s default is you are good unless and until you do bad things. Heck even if you do bad things Kara will believe you can change. Kara is mindful that to many Supergirl is a representative of all aliens, that’s why she was at first hesitant to attend the protest Brainy organized and why she didn’t march as Supergirl.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
One thing I would however like for people to stop using as an excuse to somehow make their opinion more valid is to call themselves Independents or Libertarians, far too many really need to look at the true definitions of those politically labels.
My opinion is no less or more valid because I am a Libertarian, and I have made no such claim. Nor is it an "excuse."
In my past, I have been at times both a Democrat and Republican. Right now, by any reasonable definition, I am a Libertarian. I am registered to vote with the Libertarian Party. I pay yearly dues to my state and federal party. Though I do have certain disagreements with the party platform, I am very much for leaving people the heck alone to live their lives as they see fit, unless there is a compelling reason not to do so. It is my point of view, and people can certainly disagree with it. But I hold it as deeply as any dyed in the wool conservative or "social justice warrior" here.
Regarding political issues in comics, there is indeed a rich history of presenting social issues, like advocating for the rights of those who suffer discrimination. To the extent that Supergirl does this, I approve--with the caveats I mentioned previously.
I do think it crosses a line to advocate for or against a particular candidate as Supergirl the show has. It is my opinion that characters like Superman, Captain America, and the like--those who more openly stand for ideals--should not be portrayed as partisan in that way. It takes away from the unifying power of the characters (by that I mean in the real world, not the fictional one), by hitching their ideals to very, very flawed people.
Comic books were used early on to push back against Fascism. The Fantastic Four comicbooks have been used in college classrooms for decades to give an excellent example of the history of Women's Rights in this country. I have never understood why people get so bent out of shape with this series. I am a religious watcher of "Last Man Standing" where the main character is blatantly a Neo-Conservstive, right wing character. The show is funny, well written and I enjoy it even though my political views are far different. If the episode is well written, continues the story, I don't see the problem.
There is an episode in Season 2 where one of the writers was leaving the show and a going away gift was her writing an episode on gun control. The episode was over the top, even for me a proud SJW, and did not further the story at all. I watched the episode one more time, just to make sure I wasn't over reacting...and I have not watched it since then. I actually agreed with 90% of what was said in the episode, however it did not fit well with the storyline and they ended up having to fix it later on in episodes the next season.
So my thoughts are this, there are shows out there that I do not like, so I change the channel and find something else to watch.
Stargirlmay be a better fit for some, and that's cool. But if it follows the central characters core beliefs and furthers the plot, more power to it. If it doesn't then I will respectfully let the writer's know my thoughts. One thing I would however like for people to stop using as an excuse to somehow make their opinion more valid is to call themselves Independents or Libertarians, far too many really need to look at the true definitions of those politically labels. If you are a Conservative, Right Wing, Evangelical......say it! I'm a Social Justice Warrior, lover of the Environment Pacifist.....be proud of who you are, listen to all opinions, and if the show really bothers you because of its politics, change the channel. It's all good. You Do You! And be Happy!?
There is an episode in Season 2 where one of the writers was leaving the show and a going away gift was her writing an episode on gun control. The episode was over the top, even for me a proud SJW, and did not further the story at all. I watched the episode one more time, just to make sure I wasn't over reacting...and I have not watched it since then. I actually agreed with 90% of what was said in the episode, however it did not fit well with the storyline and they ended up having to fix it later on in episodes the next season.
So my thoughts are this, there are shows out there that I do not like, so I change the channel and find something else to watch.
Stargirlmay be a better fit for some, and that's cool. But if it follows the central characters core beliefs and furthers the plot, more power to it. If it doesn't then I will respectfully let the writer's know my thoughts. One thing I would however like for people to stop using as an excuse to somehow make their opinion more valid is to call themselves Independents or Libertarians, far too many really need to look at the true definitions of those politically labels. If you are a Conservative, Right Wing, Evangelical......say it! I'm a Social Justice Warrior, lover of the Environment Pacifist.....be proud of who you are, listen to all opinions, and if the show really bothers you because of its politics, change the channel. It's all good. You Do You! And be Happy!?
Profile Pic by https://twitter.com/samayerswrites
It is true that this site, and the Forum, are supposed to keep just to matters pertaining directly to the "Supergirl" TV show, but the disclaimer at the head of this Forum topic is clear enough that this is a one-off divergence from that policy. And the topic is motivated by how the show itself approaches political issues so, if I may, I'd like to contribute yet another international perspective on this topic.
In Canada, where we have the Parliamentary system of government, we have at least four different political parties to choose from nationally, and this means that the "us versus them" mentality results in a multiple choice prospect for voters, rather than the 'either/or' choice of a two-party-only system.
To help Americans on this site further gain an idea of where most Canadians generally stand with their political views; after our last federal election in October of 2019, just under 35% of voters cast ballots for parties that were on the right side of the political spectrum, and the remaining 65+% voted for candidates and parties on the left side. Thus, most Canadians tend to lean more towards the political left by a margin of almost two to one; a much greater division than the closer margins of political loyalties in the U.S.
As for myself; full disclaimer here: I do not have a loyalty to any particular party, and since voting in my first election when I was 19 (the legal voting age back then), I have voted for every major party at one time or another. However, I have been a clearly left-of-centre voter for so many years now that I can't remember the last time that I voted for anyone on the right side of politics (25-30 years, if I had to guess).
So, with that political-science lesson concluded, and any readers having labeled me however they want to according to their own views on the subject, here is how I view politics on "Supergirl":
Simply put; I wish they wouldn't get so bogged down with doing that because, while TV shows have every right to reflect what is going on in the real world, that shouldn't lower them to the level of degrading the entertainment value of their shows to accomplish that. It's one thing to reflect real-life events in a subtle or low-key way; it's another thing entirely to get up on the soap box and become preachy about it at the expense of the story-lines.
I never saw Season Two as being political to any great extent, and saw the anti-alien nature of Cadmus and Lillian Luthor as more of a personal prejudice and human-rights issue than a purely political one.
Similarly, and with the occasional comments already noted by other contributors to this topic, I didn't see anything overtly political about Season Three either.
Season Four, however, was so blatantly political that it was disappointing to watch at times.
I have never had a problem with any TV show taking an open-minded approach to things like human-rights issues; and, because of that, I have always admired Kara for standing up for women's issues, both at CatCo and elsewhere. I also enjoyed seeing Alex's relationship with Maggie three years ago, and her growing romance with Kelly now. Similarly, I also enjoyed the "Reality Bytes" episode, because - with Melissa needing time away from the camera and her characters on the show to prepare for directing the episode that followed - it was a really good opportunity to get a very important issue out into the open, and to give Nicole a wonderful chance to get into a reality that she and guest star Roxy Wood have undoubtedly had years of personal experience with.
I also don't have any problems with the actors, or anyone else connected with any show, or any celebrity of any kind, speaking out publicly about any important issue that deserves to be spoken of; and we all know that there are so many deserving issues that need to be talked about and moved forward with right now, more than ever before.
But there is a huge difference between an individual doing that, and a TV show hijacking what should be entertainment to pursue political agendas. True, Kara is an American, and National City is in California, USA; but the 'Supergirl' TV show is aired in many other countries around the world, where America's politics are of far less direct impact to those viewers than they are to people in the States.
The concept of "good vs evil" is intrinsic to all superhero stories; but when this is reduced to "right vs wrong", and further becomes confused with "right vs left" then, as left-leaning as I am personally, I believe that a show that can't tell the difference is in bigger trouble than it should be.
Going forward; with all of the other avenues that are available for people to express themselves on current issues of any kind, it would be really nice to see the show-runners of 'Supergirl' get back to being more entertaining. When I want news, I listen to, read, or watch the news (from Canadian news outlets, BTW); when I want to know what other people are thinking about the news, or current events and issues (which I do quite often), I look to various sources of opinion, such as editorials, personal commentaries, and social media sites; but when I just want entertainment and escapism, I watch TV shows. Is that too much to ask for?
As usual with many topics on the Forum, there has been a really nice diversity of opinions expressed on this topic so far, and the also-usual respect for those opinions too. I look forward to hearing what more contributors have to say on this issue too.
In Canada, where we have the Parliamentary system of government, we have at least four different political parties to choose from nationally, and this means that the "us versus them" mentality results in a multiple choice prospect for voters, rather than the 'either/or' choice of a two-party-only system.
To help Americans on this site further gain an idea of where most Canadians generally stand with their political views; after our last federal election in October of 2019, just under 35% of voters cast ballots for parties that were on the right side of the political spectrum, and the remaining 65+% voted for candidates and parties on the left side. Thus, most Canadians tend to lean more towards the political left by a margin of almost two to one; a much greater division than the closer margins of political loyalties in the U.S.
As for myself; full disclaimer here: I do not have a loyalty to any particular party, and since voting in my first election when I was 19 (the legal voting age back then), I have voted for every major party at one time or another. However, I have been a clearly left-of-centre voter for so many years now that I can't remember the last time that I voted for anyone on the right side of politics (25-30 years, if I had to guess).
So, with that political-science lesson concluded, and any readers having labeled me however they want to according to their own views on the subject, here is how I view politics on "Supergirl":
Simply put; I wish they wouldn't get so bogged down with doing that because, while TV shows have every right to reflect what is going on in the real world, that shouldn't lower them to the level of degrading the entertainment value of their shows to accomplish that. It's one thing to reflect real-life events in a subtle or low-key way; it's another thing entirely to get up on the soap box and become preachy about it at the expense of the story-lines.
I never saw Season Two as being political to any great extent, and saw the anti-alien nature of Cadmus and Lillian Luthor as more of a personal prejudice and human-rights issue than a purely political one.
Similarly, and with the occasional comments already noted by other contributors to this topic, I didn't see anything overtly political about Season Three either.
Season Four, however, was so blatantly political that it was disappointing to watch at times.
I have never had a problem with any TV show taking an open-minded approach to things like human-rights issues; and, because of that, I have always admired Kara for standing up for women's issues, both at CatCo and elsewhere. I also enjoyed seeing Alex's relationship with Maggie three years ago, and her growing romance with Kelly now. Similarly, I also enjoyed the "Reality Bytes" episode, because - with Melissa needing time away from the camera and her characters on the show to prepare for directing the episode that followed - it was a really good opportunity to get a very important issue out into the open, and to give Nicole a wonderful chance to get into a reality that she and guest star Roxy Wood have undoubtedly had years of personal experience with.
I also don't have any problems with the actors, or anyone else connected with any show, or any celebrity of any kind, speaking out publicly about any important issue that deserves to be spoken of; and we all know that there are so many deserving issues that need to be talked about and moved forward with right now, more than ever before.
But there is a huge difference between an individual doing that, and a TV show hijacking what should be entertainment to pursue political agendas. True, Kara is an American, and National City is in California, USA; but the 'Supergirl' TV show is aired in many other countries around the world, where America's politics are of far less direct impact to those viewers than they are to people in the States.
The concept of "good vs evil" is intrinsic to all superhero stories; but when this is reduced to "right vs wrong", and further becomes confused with "right vs left" then, as left-leaning as I am personally, I believe that a show that can't tell the difference is in bigger trouble than it should be.
Going forward; with all of the other avenues that are available for people to express themselves on current issues of any kind, it would be really nice to see the show-runners of 'Supergirl' get back to being more entertaining. When I want news, I listen to, read, or watch the news (from Canadian news outlets, BTW); when I want to know what other people are thinking about the news, or current events and issues (which I do quite often), I look to various sources of opinion, such as editorials, personal commentaries, and social media sites; but when I just want entertainment and escapism, I watch TV shows. Is that too much to ask for?
As usual with many topics on the Forum, there has been a really nice diversity of opinions expressed on this topic so far, and the also-usual respect for those opinions too. I look forward to hearing what more contributors have to say on this issue too.
I'm a Conservative (a Canadian one though). Quite active in politics. For the most part, I can ignore the political messaging in Supergirl. It helps that a lot of the political messaging is about things most Canadians agree with. For instance, I'd say most Canadians support LGBTQ rights, even though some American conservatives (and fewer Canadian conservatives) may disagree.
The times I do have an issue with the political messaging is when it's an obvious jab at Trump, or at Republicans/conservatives. For example, Rhea's line in season 2 of "Make Daxam Great Again" really irked me off. It was unnecessary and a pretty cheap shot. I also didn't like that scene in season 3 when Maggie's father talks about Trump's border wall. Again, it was oversimplified and unnecessary. There's a few others I can't think of right now.
Again, overall, it's not too bad. I guess I'm just used to ignoring liberal bias in media (which includes TV shows). SG is far from the worst imo.
Edit: I should add that I've only seen the first 3 seasons so far, so this doesn't account for seasons 4 and 5.
Edit 2: I forgot the whole gun control thing in the episode Not Kansas near the end of season 3. That was bad.
The times I do have an issue with the political messaging is when it's an obvious jab at Trump, or at Republicans/conservatives. For example, Rhea's line in season 2 of "Make Daxam Great Again" really irked me off. It was unnecessary and a pretty cheap shot. I also didn't like that scene in season 3 when Maggie's father talks about Trump's border wall. Again, it was oversimplified and unnecessary. There's a few others I can't think of right now.
Again, overall, it's not too bad. I guess I'm just used to ignoring liberal bias in media (which includes TV shows). SG is far from the worst imo.
Edit: I should add that I've only seen the first 3 seasons so far, so this doesn't account for seasons 4 and 5.
Edit 2: I forgot the whole gun control thing in the episode Not Kansas near the end of season 3. That was bad.
Since I appear to have opened this can of worms.... It’s my understanding that comic books are often political and from the beginning Superman comics have been. Fantasy TV also has a history of incorporating politics and social issues. Anyone who doesn’t like politics in their comic-based TV shows should stay far away from Black Lightning, if you think Supergirl’s political that show would break you. I would say that politics have been part of Supergirl since the beginning. In the first season it was mostly quips from Cat. I seem to remember Cat instructing Kara to make sure a job applicant was a Democrat. And who can forget in season two upon learning the President was an alien Cat’s first words were “At least tell me you’re still a Democrat”. Yet the unabashedly political character, Cat Grant is almost universally loved by fans. When things fit with the characters, I think the show has had successes with incorporating politics and social issues. I thought the season four theme worked for a show where the main character is a literal alien. IMO Nia/Dreamer’s transness has been handled well, it’s a big part of who she is but not all she is. To me “Reality Bytes” was telling truths that should be told and fit in with the characters. I also thought the scene where James describes getting handcuffed as a small boy was appropriate and since it drew on Mehcad’s IRL experience was another truth that needs to be told. Alex’s coming out story has been widely praised. Has the show always done a good job fitting in social issues, that’s a no. I’m pro gun control but the shows attempt didn’t work and I think that’s because it had no context within the characters. Bottom line if politics or a social issue fits in naturally with a character then it can and has worked.
As to the question do our political views effect how we view the show, IMO yes. I’m socially liberal for sure. I don’t know how I would describe myself fiscally. I believe in people over profits but think business should be able to make a profit. Business that treat their people well often find their profits increasing as a result, so the two things aren’t mutually exclusive. I think Citizens United needs to be overturned, business are not people and should have strict limits on political contributions and thus their influence. Where I think an individual’s, political views effect their perception of the show is their general I guess tolerance is best word for political and/or social issues in fantasy TV. Of course, whether you agree with what’s being said plays a big part too.
Should politics be kept out of the forum (The News Feed should remain a no politics zone), my actions are my answer. We’ve had political forum threads before, didn’t we talk about Meilssa’s participation in the Washington DC women’s march in 2017. With much respect in the forum users make a deliberate choice to read a thread. There are threads on topics I’m not interested in, Stargirl and re-watching season one, to name current ones and I leave those interested to their fun. I propose that all threads of a political nature be clearly titled as such and political commentary be confined to those threads. I agree that the inspiration for a thread of a political nature must come from something on the show itself and/or a public statement made by a cast member or EP.
As to the question do our political views effect how we view the show, IMO yes. I’m socially liberal for sure. I don’t know how I would describe myself fiscally. I believe in people over profits but think business should be able to make a profit. Business that treat their people well often find their profits increasing as a result, so the two things aren’t mutually exclusive. I think Citizens United needs to be overturned, business are not people and should have strict limits on political contributions and thus their influence. Where I think an individual’s, political views effect their perception of the show is their general I guess tolerance is best word for political and/or social issues in fantasy TV. Of course, whether you agree with what’s being said plays a big part too.
Should politics be kept out of the forum (The News Feed should remain a no politics zone), my actions are my answer. We’ve had political forum threads before, didn’t we talk about Meilssa’s participation in the Washington DC women’s march in 2017. With much respect in the forum users make a deliberate choice to read a thread. There are threads on topics I’m not interested in, Stargirl and re-watching season one, to name current ones and I leave those interested to their fun. I propose that all threads of a political nature be clearly titled as such and political commentary be confined to those threads. I agree that the inspiration for a thread of a political nature must come from something on the show itself and/or a public statement made by a cast member or EP.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
@RobertAnthony
I do agree season 5 was less weighted by "social message" than season 4. Although, to be honest, I found season 4 overall better, as a whole. I found season 5 the most overall uneven to-date (50/50, maybe 1/3 at the B+ or higher level). But, thats just my opinion.
My season rankings, as a whole, would probably be 1, 2, 4, 3 & 5. Tomorrow, it may different... lol!
You are correct, season 5 did pull back. I think that was also quite true with Reality Bytes, arguably the most "socially conscious" of season 5, which addressed hate crimes against the LGBTQ (speficallyTrans) community. That was a story I am glad they told and it gave Nicole Maines a powerful showcase. They gave two stories in that episode in what I suspect was an attempt to satisfy all or most fans/viewers. Again, I think the main complaint that I recall reading on the comment board was that the episode was too Kara/Supergirl-lite. So, I feel it was successful. Others are free to disagree.
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I would probably say Supergirl is pro-female empowerment as opposed to feminist. Again, just my personal terminology and not trying to pick any nits. The show is about the Maiden of Might, Kara Zor-el, Supergirl! You can't get more empowered than Supergirl... ok, and Wonder Woman... so psyched for 1984!
Everyone has different views and priorities. I have enjoyed reading them.
I do agree season 5 was less weighted by "social message" than season 4. Although, to be honest, I found season 4 overall better, as a whole. I found season 5 the most overall uneven to-date (50/50, maybe 1/3 at the B+ or higher level). But, thats just my opinion.
My season rankings, as a whole, would probably be 1, 2, 4, 3 & 5. Tomorrow, it may different... lol!
You are correct, season 5 did pull back. I think that was also quite true with Reality Bytes, arguably the most "socially conscious" of season 5, which addressed hate crimes against the LGBTQ (speficallyTrans) community. That was a story I am glad they told and it gave Nicole Maines a powerful showcase. They gave two stories in that episode in what I suspect was an attempt to satisfy all or most fans/viewers. Again, I think the main complaint that I recall reading on the comment board was that the episode was too Kara/Supergirl-lite. So, I feel it was successful. Others are free to disagree.
###
I would probably say Supergirl is pro-female empowerment as opposed to feminist. Again, just my personal terminology and not trying to pick any nits. The show is about the Maiden of Might, Kara Zor-el, Supergirl! You can't get more empowered than Supergirl... ok, and Wonder Woman... so psyched for 1984!
Everyone has different views and priorities. I have enjoyed reading them.
Don't mean to come off the wrong way. This is indeed inspired by the exchange on Brierrose's post, but I wasn't thinking of you when I made it. I've been wondering about this topic since 2016.
I don't enforce you to read my content, so if you don't like it, I would appreciate if you would not specifically come here to disparage it. Others have participated quite readily so it seems my idea wasn't too crazy.
Also it seems most here actually agree with your last paragraph, which incidentally answers my survey in a way. So, uh, thanks for participating
I don't enforce you to read my content, so if you don't like it, I would appreciate if you would not specifically come here to disparage it. Others have participated quite readily so it seems my idea wasn't too crazy.
Also it seems most here actually agree with your last paragraph, which incidentally answers my survey in a way. So, uh, thanks for participating
I am a liberal. I love the show because:
1. It stresses morals
2. It stresses inclusiveness of all (diversity)
3. Shows adopted children that blood is not the only thing that makes a family (i.e Kara Danvers)
4. Shows the importance of friends.
5. Shows that you have to sometimes fight for something you know is right.
6. Love makes the world go around.
I love that this show stresses all of the aforementioned values not just through the show but also through the actors. They practice what they preach. I will always love this show and will watch it until Melissa decides it is time to end it.
1. It stresses morals
2. It stresses inclusiveness of all (diversity)
3. Shows adopted children that blood is not the only thing that makes a family (i.e Kara Danvers)
4. Shows the importance of friends.
5. Shows that you have to sometimes fight for something you know is right.
6. Love makes the world go around.
I love that this show stresses all of the aforementioned values not just through the show but also through the actors. They practice what they preach. I will always love this show and will watch it until Melissa decides it is time to end it.
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