- Parapup24
-
- Supergirl General Discussion
- Monday, 22 July 2019
I found myself agreeing with about 80-90% of what everyone else has written here on this subject so far. But there is something that has been only lightly touched on by some, and which maybe needs to be explored a bit more.
Kara never kept her secret from Lena to be hurtful about it, but - all of her perfectly understandable secrecy issues aside - the real root source of the problem here is Lena's intractable lack of trust of others.
She has had a very nasty habit of going on a rant from time to time about how much she hates it whenever someone close to her lies to her or keeps secrets from her, and how she can never trust anyone who does that to her; and I have lost track of how many times we've all seen her do that over the past two or three years.
It happen most recently on the plane when they were coming back from Kaznia. Kara saw a long-awaited opportunity to finally get her secret out in the open (something that she has wanted to do ever since the Kryptonite issue during the World-killers saga in Season Three) but, instead of listening, Lena started ranting about Eve's betrayal and, yet again, of how she can never trust anyone who has kept secrets from her, and Kara had to put off telling Lena, again. So rather than encouraging Kara to 'come clean' with Lena, this has been much more DIScouraging on Lena's part than anything else that she has done.
But Lena isn't completely at fault here; the problem most likely stems from her early years growing up in the Luthor family. Lillian perpetually lied and kept secrets from her, as Lex also did as he got older. And Lena later found out that even Lionel was keeping secrets from her too before he died. This may have started out as just a hang-up inherited from the Luthor family, but Lena has tenaciously clung to it as some kind of self-defence mechanism well into her adult life, to the point where it has escalated into an obsession with her, and I'm guessing that she probably doesn't even realize herself how negatively it affects her relationships with others close to her.
And let's be honest about something else - Lena has kept plenty secrets of her own from the others. Such as: Not telling them that she was working with Samantha to try to figure out how to stop Reign; lying about how the Kryptonite she used was Lex's, when it was actually hers; and then lying about how it was all gone, when she had figured out how to make more synthetic Kryptonite anytime she wanted to; keeping some of the Harun-El for herself (even though it was synthetic); and the experiments that she was doing with it to create super-humans. So, Lena feels that it's perfectly okay for her to lie and keep secrets from her friends, but it's not okay for them to keep secrets from her? There's a word for that, but I won't use it here.
And as for how she found out about Kara; Lex knew that he was dying and yet, in those last moments of his life, he didn't try to reconcile with Lena, but instead chose that revelation about Kara as his last act of vengeance on his sister. And he deliberately did it so as to cruelly inflict the greatest amount of psychological damage possible on his sister, using words that he knew would be the most hurtful possible to her ("they MOCKED you, they HUMILIATED you, etc.". He knew exactly how vulnerable she was at that moment, and how to push her buttons and what it would do to her, and he did it maliciously; and Lena fell for it.
All that having been said, I have never enjoyed the occasional suggestions over the past three years that Lena should descend into the same darkness that the rest of her family is infamous for just because she's a Luthor. Despite some errors in judgement along the way (and which we are all guilty of) she has strived to be a good person, and has generally succeeded. So she should stay 'good', and leave the evil stuff to the seemingly endless variety of villains and baddies that Supergirl routinely faces off against. I expect that it will be a very rough ride for Kara and Lena for a while in Season Five, but I'm a "the glass is half-full" type of person, so I'm hoping that Lena will eventually be honest enough to face up to her own inherent lack of trust of others, and that their friendship will prevail in the end.
Kara never kept her secret from Lena to be hurtful about it, but - all of her perfectly understandable secrecy issues aside - the real root source of the problem here is Lena's intractable lack of trust of others.
She has had a very nasty habit of going on a rant from time to time about how much she hates it whenever someone close to her lies to her or keeps secrets from her, and how she can never trust anyone who does that to her; and I have lost track of how many times we've all seen her do that over the past two or three years.
It happen most recently on the plane when they were coming back from Kaznia. Kara saw a long-awaited opportunity to finally get her secret out in the open (something that she has wanted to do ever since the Kryptonite issue during the World-killers saga in Season Three) but, instead of listening, Lena started ranting about Eve's betrayal and, yet again, of how she can never trust anyone who has kept secrets from her, and Kara had to put off telling Lena, again. So rather than encouraging Kara to 'come clean' with Lena, this has been much more DIScouraging on Lena's part than anything else that she has done.
But Lena isn't completely at fault here; the problem most likely stems from her early years growing up in the Luthor family. Lillian perpetually lied and kept secrets from her, as Lex also did as he got older. And Lena later found out that even Lionel was keeping secrets from her too before he died. This may have started out as just a hang-up inherited from the Luthor family, but Lena has tenaciously clung to it as some kind of self-defence mechanism well into her adult life, to the point where it has escalated into an obsession with her, and I'm guessing that she probably doesn't even realize herself how negatively it affects her relationships with others close to her.
And let's be honest about something else - Lena has kept plenty secrets of her own from the others. Such as: Not telling them that she was working with Samantha to try to figure out how to stop Reign; lying about how the Kryptonite she used was Lex's, when it was actually hers; and then lying about how it was all gone, when she had figured out how to make more synthetic Kryptonite anytime she wanted to; keeping some of the Harun-El for herself (even though it was synthetic); and the experiments that she was doing with it to create super-humans. So, Lena feels that it's perfectly okay for her to lie and keep secrets from her friends, but it's not okay for them to keep secrets from her? There's a word for that, but I won't use it here.
And as for how she found out about Kara; Lex knew that he was dying and yet, in those last moments of his life, he didn't try to reconcile with Lena, but instead chose that revelation about Kara as his last act of vengeance on his sister. And he deliberately did it so as to cruelly inflict the greatest amount of psychological damage possible on his sister, using words that he knew would be the most hurtful possible to her ("they MOCKED you, they HUMILIATED you, etc.". He knew exactly how vulnerable she was at that moment, and how to push her buttons and what it would do to her, and he did it maliciously; and Lena fell for it.
All that having been said, I have never enjoyed the occasional suggestions over the past three years that Lena should descend into the same darkness that the rest of her family is infamous for just because she's a Luthor. Despite some errors in judgement along the way (and which we are all guilty of) she has strived to be a good person, and has generally succeeded. So she should stay 'good', and leave the evil stuff to the seemingly endless variety of villains and baddies that Supergirl routinely faces off against. I expect that it will be a very rough ride for Kara and Lena for a while in Season Five, but I'm a "the glass is half-full" type of person, so I'm hoping that Lena will eventually be honest enough to face up to her own inherent lack of trust of others, and that their friendship will prevail in the end.
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 1
I would like to see Lena's anger take her down a dark path, gets herself into trouble, Kara pulls her back and Lena realizes Kara is the same person she became friends with, and thank goodness she is Supergirl or she (Lena) would be dead....lol.
Profile Pic by https://twitter.com/samayerswrites
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 2
The series has done a good job building the reasons why Lena has trust issues, and Kara knows these reasons as well, which we have seen has been one of the reasons why she hasn't told Lena. So I don't see this as a simple troupe by any means.
Profile Pic by https://twitter.com/samayerswrites
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 3
I do think Kara and Lena will be friends again. Kara/Lena isn’t like Clark/Lex if only because Lena isn’t a psychopath like her brother. No matter how much she wants to hurt Kara I just can’t see Lena intentionally hurting innocent people to do it. Unintentionally hurting hurting innocent people is a possibility but not intentionally. I think Lena’s gonna get in too deep with Leviathan and Kara has to pull her out.
A better question than will they be friends again is what will that friendship look like. Forgiving is not the same as forgetting. Trust has/will be broken on both sides.
I am looking forward to how it plays out.
A better question than will they be friends again is what will that friendship look like. Forgiving is not the same as forgetting. Trust has/will be broken on both sides.
I am looking forward to how it plays out.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 4
There have been many thoughtful contributions to this topic since it was started.
None of us know with any certainty exactly what is going to happen at the beginning of Season Five (just three weeks from now) but, given what we saw at the very end of Episode 4.22, it seems very unlikely that Lena will welcome Kara with open arms when next they meet. Beyond that, we are all guessing as to what will happen next, and how long it will take for them to patch things up between them (which it seems we are all assuming will eventually happen).
Lena has repeatedly demonstrated a nasty habit of clinging to negative feelings for very long periods of time, and in view of that, and what has been proposed on this Forum topic so far and as further food for thought, there are two old witticisms that some of you might have heard before, but that I would like to share with everyone anyway (these are admittedly not accurate word-for-word quotations of the original versions, but they are close enough for our purposes here):
1) Anger is like a hot coal - the longer you hold it before you throw it, the more it will burn you instead.
2) The desire for revenge is like swallowing poison and hoping that the other person will die from it.
The obvious point with this latest event is that Lena's anger at Kara will hurt Kara's feelings, for sure, but it will clearly end up hurting Lena far more in the end.
In fact, in Episode 4.19 "American Dreamer" when Lena was lamenting to Brainy about all the people in her life who have betrayed her, Brainy told her that a lack of trust on her part would result in "a 99.9% chance of a life of sorrow" (or something close to that).
A very good point that has already been made by some other contributors to this topic is that our own personal perceptions of things IS our reality, and that is quite true for most people regardless. Lena clearly does not see this as being her problem, but rather as other people's problems that she is being victimized by. And because of that, I doubt that Lena would think on her own of getting help from a professional therapist (such as, maybe, Kelly Olsen).
But at some point she will have to face up to the reality that the anger that she feels towards Kara (and other people) is not their fault, but is actually because of her own inability to trust others. And if she does not deal with that, then her anger will ultimately be much more damaging and destructive to herself than it is to anyone else; otherwise, she will just go on making her own sorrow and hurting herself from it, and very badly.
Like everyone else, I'm rooting for Lena to get over it and be friends with Kara again.
None of us know with any certainty exactly what is going to happen at the beginning of Season Five (just three weeks from now) but, given what we saw at the very end of Episode 4.22, it seems very unlikely that Lena will welcome Kara with open arms when next they meet. Beyond that, we are all guessing as to what will happen next, and how long it will take for them to patch things up between them (which it seems we are all assuming will eventually happen).
Lena has repeatedly demonstrated a nasty habit of clinging to negative feelings for very long periods of time, and in view of that, and what has been proposed on this Forum topic so far and as further food for thought, there are two old witticisms that some of you might have heard before, but that I would like to share with everyone anyway (these are admittedly not accurate word-for-word quotations of the original versions, but they are close enough for our purposes here):
1) Anger is like a hot coal - the longer you hold it before you throw it, the more it will burn you instead.
2) The desire for revenge is like swallowing poison and hoping that the other person will die from it.
The obvious point with this latest event is that Lena's anger at Kara will hurt Kara's feelings, for sure, but it will clearly end up hurting Lena far more in the end.
In fact, in Episode 4.19 "American Dreamer" when Lena was lamenting to Brainy about all the people in her life who have betrayed her, Brainy told her that a lack of trust on her part would result in "a 99.9% chance of a life of sorrow" (or something close to that).
A very good point that has already been made by some other contributors to this topic is that our own personal perceptions of things IS our reality, and that is quite true for most people regardless. Lena clearly does not see this as being her problem, but rather as other people's problems that she is being victimized by. And because of that, I doubt that Lena would think on her own of getting help from a professional therapist (such as, maybe, Kelly Olsen).
But at some point she will have to face up to the reality that the anger that she feels towards Kara (and other people) is not their fault, but is actually because of her own inability to trust others. And if she does not deal with that, then her anger will ultimately be much more damaging and destructive to herself than it is to anyone else; otherwise, she will just go on making her own sorrow and hurting herself from it, and very badly.
Like everyone else, I'm rooting for Lena to get over it and be friends with Kara again.
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 5
I hope so. I hope they can get past this, particularly since, Kara's 'betrayal' only exists in Lena's mind.
The problem isn't that Kara, Lena's best friend, hasn't told Lena her secret. What makes Lena feel betrayed is that she allowed Lex to convince her that Kara (along with everyone else in her friend group) was never her friend to begin with.
You would think she would know better than to trust Lex, but she can't seem to help being manipulated by him.
Lena has issues with trust. She doesn't give people second chances, which means that Kara would have had to pulled off the reveal perfectly. This is not an issue with anyone else in the know. Kara didn't really have to worry about how they would react when she told them (also for the most part she didn't actually have to tell them).
Lena allows herself to be conned by Lex because she thinks that because she knows he's trying to con her she can just outsmart him. Unfortunately Lex is doing the https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KansasCityShuffle so she is tricked anyway.
Hopefully someone will talk some sense into Lena. Perhaps Alex might point out that she shrugged off Alex working for the DEO pretty easily, or Alex might mention that she had to have her memories erased for a good bit of last season, which might have given Kara even more reason to be hesitant to tell Lena. Or maybe James could point out that Kara believed in Lena even when it appeared that there was solid proof against her.
Also they still have that Truthseeker thing, right? Maybe they can use that.
I love Lena but she's just wrong this time.
The problem isn't that Kara, Lena's best friend, hasn't told Lena her secret. What makes Lena feel betrayed is that she allowed Lex to convince her that Kara (along with everyone else in her friend group) was never her friend to begin with.
You would think she would know better than to trust Lex, but she can't seem to help being manipulated by him.
Lena has issues with trust. She doesn't give people second chances, which means that Kara would have had to pulled off the reveal perfectly. This is not an issue with anyone else in the know. Kara didn't really have to worry about how they would react when she told them (also for the most part she didn't actually have to tell them).
Lena allows herself to be conned by Lex because she thinks that because she knows he's trying to con her she can just outsmart him. Unfortunately Lex is doing the https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KansasCityShuffle so she is tricked anyway.
Hopefully someone will talk some sense into Lena. Perhaps Alex might point out that she shrugged off Alex working for the DEO pretty easily, or Alex might mention that she had to have her memories erased for a good bit of last season, which might have given Kara even more reason to be hesitant to tell Lena. Or maybe James could point out that Kara believed in Lena even when it appeared that there was solid proof against her.
Also they still have that Truthseeker thing, right? Maybe they can use that.
I love Lena but she's just wrong this time.
Don't assume malice when stupidity is an adequate explanation. At least, not the first time.
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 6
Also, let me be clear, when I say...this or that pissed me off.....ex: Lena/Alex vs. Kara it is all within this fictional world of Supergirl. I don't take any of this personally or think the writer's are creatively wrong....they have every right to write it as they wish. As far as people being happy about Lena punching Kara, those people have taken this far beyond that of fictional characters. They see KATIE as their God, so whatever KATIE's character does is the exact right thing to do. On the other side you have those losing their marbles on Twitter because Katie said. I guess in one of the interviews that Supergirl deserved to be punched. I assume she is speaking as Lena, and take it as that.....others are losing their minds over it. I see them as fictional characters and we have one hell of a storyline to watch come Oct. 6th....lol
Profile Pic by https://twitter.com/samayerswrites
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 7
I think you brought up something important to mention, Brier. We've talked about how some of us think it's a bit wrong that Kara is taking so much heat for "lying." But, trying to see it from a realistic perspective, I think the problem I would have had, if I was Lena, wasn't thinking Kara lied to me; but rather, that I was the only one Kara felt couldn't be trusted with the secret. And feeling they all agreed that I couldn't be trusted.
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 8
I think you brought up something important to mention, Brier. We've talked about how some of us think it's a bit wrong that Kara is taking so much heat for "lying." But, trying to see it from a realistic perspective, I think the problem I would have had, if I was Lena, wasn't thinking Kara lied to me; but rather, that I was the only one Kara felt couldn't be trusted with the secret. And feeling they all agreed that I couldn't be trusted.Lena has major trust issues, I totally get why she would be upset. The trust issues are compounded by the Super/Luthor family history. Lena’s going to think the only reason Kara didn’t tell her is because she’s a Luthor which isn’t the whole truth. Likely the Luthor name was part of the reason in the beginning then even after Lena proved to be the white sheep of the family it became harder for Kara as time went on. And it’s true that knowledge of a hero’s secret identity does put the person in danger. As far as the others it’s not their secret to tell. The only thing any of the others could’ve done is encourage Kara to tell but I just don’t see any of them starting that conversation with Kara.
Both Kara and Lena have overacted at times. Remember when many of us were on team Lena, at least initially, with Kara’s reaction to the Kryptonite. They react differently when pushed, Kara sees red and gets mad while Lena uses her boxes.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 9
I suspect, after an uphill battle and push back from Lena, I could foresee Kara/Supergirl being in some real trouble and it causes Lena to realizes her broken heart has mended and works to either help "save" her or the friend in herself takes over.
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 10
I will freely admit this discussion is the whole reason why I bit the bullet and joined this forum. First I want to start by stating, this will be long. Hi, now you’ve met me. Second, I love McGrath’s portrayal of Lena Luthor and is quickly becoming one of my favourite characters in the series. I also want to say that a lot of observations that people have made about Lena’s behaviours are pretty spot on. It’s obvious there are individuals who have had similar situations they have dealt with in their relationships that can both put them on or against Lena or Kara’s POV. Since I can resonate with both view points, my talking point circles around this very duality....First and foremost welcome. Heck of a first post, very inciteful. While personally I want Kara and Lena to eventually reconcile mainly because I want their story to be different than Clark and Lex's you make some excellent points. Forgiving is not the same as forgetting and when/if they reconcile I want the relationship to be forever altered. Trust has/will be broken on both sides and that should always cast a bit of a shadow over the relationship.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 11
I will freely admit this discussion is the whole reason why I bit the bullet and joined this forum. First I want to start by stating, this will be long. Hi, now you’ve met me. Second, I love McGrath’s portrayal of Lena Luthor and is quickly becoming one of my favourite characters in the series. I also want to say that a lot of observations that people have made about Lena’s behaviours are pretty spot on. It’s obvious there are individuals who have had similar situations they have dealt with in their relationships that can both put them on or against Lena or Kara’s POV. Since I can resonate with both view points, my talking point circles around this very duality.
TLDR: I don’t want Lena and Kara to reconcile. I want Lena to be Kara’s adversary.
Hear me out.
In my opinion, part of the wonderfulness of watching/reading a Superhero’s story is watching the mundane life effect the kind of hero they become. Understanding their back story you get glimpses into why they prefer certain types of weaponry or have nostalgia for certain fighting styles, places, or certain types of imagery. These small things effect how the Superhero interacts with their world. In the same respect, every tragedy, every love, every loss also does the same. This is a bit of a no brainer for anyone who has glimpsed at an emblazoned rubber suit. However, what I have always loved the most is the wrestling with the lines of morality. How far is to far and does the hero EVER experience a situation where they a dangerously teetering over the edge if not slipped if even for a second?
Now we got a taste of that with the Red Kryptonite and showed the repercussions of Kara’s actions but, having been effected by the Red Kryptonite it was essentially a license to say.. what if Supergirl were bad.. but not really.. and let’s show how easily trust an be lost to people who don’t know who you are. (Story of our lives, right?) But it’s a whole different ball game when someone, especially a hero, chooses to go against what others, especially other heroes, decide is right. If I can jump genre’s for a minute, have a look at Marvel’s Civil War for a great example how two heroes can differ on something they find at the core of who they are and can divide a fan base on top of it.
It’s our choices that determine who we are, Harry.
Lena has repeatedly stated that she trusts more in her tech, her intelligence, relies on herself, and includes a very small group of inner circle than she does on the heart and good nature of other people. Her background has definitely been a contributing factor to that. Isolation, upper class, elite schools, constantly having to prove herself to her family along with all that emotional baggage, carves out the perfect scenario where the reliance on self, to become stronger, to stand against those who would oppress you and hold you down, to obtain power and wield it against those who deserve retribution for their actions, finds a home and champion with a woman of her education and resources.
Additionally, if I had to speculate, as much as she distances herself from her brother, I think the thing she hated most about Lex was how much they were the same. Highly intelligent, self isolating, distrustful, and competitive. Lex called her out with those words, that they laughed at her, that they humiliated her. It wasn’t just a shot to her heart about how she finally thought she had a group of people (cause, let us remember EVERYONE knew but her, regardless of why or how they knew... it’s not just Kara she’s mad at here) that could be a real family to her, but that she wasn’t smart enough to spot the lies and secrets surrounding it all. And he was. She not only feels hurt. She feels foolish. And, just one more thing that Lex had seen before her. That’s a lot to absorb.
Kara Danvers was able to have her biological parents for a while before Krypton went Kablooie. Then she landed and got more loving parents. She got a loving a supportive sister. She had a loving supportive cousin (albeit distantly). Her entire family was geared around supporting each other. Though they couldn’t have possibly of understood what it was like to be in Kara’s shoes during the whole loose (literally) your entire world event, they were their for her to help her rebuild that world. Kara is the emblem of hope because that is what she has been given her entire existence. Hope in family, hope in friends, hope In heroes to protect those who are meek and can not fight for themselves. She is the true representation of the idealistic Superhero, defender of the meek, protector of all, and those who must come into their power to understand the consequences of wielding it. After all, as the show has already touched on with the Harun-El, Kara knows the dangers of obtaining power without understanding both the pros and cons of it’s use, as they had to learn that themselves throughout childhood and as they grew as a Superhero, and is hesitant that the menial public should have access to such advancements.
So in this you find the most wonderful duality we all face down in Superhero lands: The ability of the people to Champion for themselves and the potential consequences of power going awry (additionally the Supergirl 1984 movie makes a great example of this) VS a reliance on heroes in capes who we summon from the sky with our pleas for help along with their ability to decide to wether they elect themselves Gods.
I think Lena and Kara playing either side of this scenario as adversaries would be bloody brilliant. They’ve obviously been touching on this since season 1, but I think that Lena would be the best direct representation for this. Even more so because, like many epic rivalries through out comic book series (ex: Prof. X/Magneto; Spider-Man/Green Goblin; Batwoman/Alice; Wolverine/Sabertooth; Batman/Two Face), they started/are loving friends/family. How two people can have the same information, process it through two different filters, and come out the other side with two radically different viewpoints is about as human as you can get. If Kara’s real connection with Lena was that she could be truly human with her, then this exemplification of the consequences of their choices would be an epic storyline.
I know this is super long so I’ll finish it up with this. In my opinion, the BEST part of the Superhero are their strongest adversaries. They are the ones that bring out the best and the absolute worst in their superhero. They challenge them. They help define them. They bring them to the brink and question wether they will fall over that line. They make them see how far they will go to protect someone they love. When that person is the one who stands in opposition to them, it becomes a defining moment in who they choose to be as a hero. It’s not about Good vs Evil, that’s to absolute a concept. It’s about how we the viewers, and the principals themselves, view justice and morality in the immensely grey areas that lie within them. It’s about dealing with the consequences of those choices and weighing wether it is or was worth the cost. This is why I want Lena and Kara to be adversaries. This is a story I’d want to watch.
I mean... they make up I’ll be happy with that too, I just think there’s so much more potential the other way. Regardless... NEW SEASON VERY SOON NOW! Yay!
TLDR: I don’t want Lena and Kara to reconcile. I want Lena to be Kara’s adversary.
Hear me out.
In my opinion, part of the wonderfulness of watching/reading a Superhero’s story is watching the mundane life effect the kind of hero they become. Understanding their back story you get glimpses into why they prefer certain types of weaponry or have nostalgia for certain fighting styles, places, or certain types of imagery. These small things effect how the Superhero interacts with their world. In the same respect, every tragedy, every love, every loss also does the same. This is a bit of a no brainer for anyone who has glimpsed at an emblazoned rubber suit. However, what I have always loved the most is the wrestling with the lines of morality. How far is to far and does the hero EVER experience a situation where they a dangerously teetering over the edge if not slipped if even for a second?
Now we got a taste of that with the Red Kryptonite and showed the repercussions of Kara’s actions but, having been effected by the Red Kryptonite it was essentially a license to say.. what if Supergirl were bad.. but not really.. and let’s show how easily trust an be lost to people who don’t know who you are. (Story of our lives, right?) But it’s a whole different ball game when someone, especially a hero, chooses to go against what others, especially other heroes, decide is right. If I can jump genre’s for a minute, have a look at Marvel’s Civil War for a great example how two heroes can differ on something they find at the core of who they are and can divide a fan base on top of it.
It’s our choices that determine who we are, Harry.
Lena has repeatedly stated that she trusts more in her tech, her intelligence, relies on herself, and includes a very small group of inner circle than she does on the heart and good nature of other people. Her background has definitely been a contributing factor to that. Isolation, upper class, elite schools, constantly having to prove herself to her family along with all that emotional baggage, carves out the perfect scenario where the reliance on self, to become stronger, to stand against those who would oppress you and hold you down, to obtain power and wield it against those who deserve retribution for their actions, finds a home and champion with a woman of her education and resources.
Additionally, if I had to speculate, as much as she distances herself from her brother, I think the thing she hated most about Lex was how much they were the same. Highly intelligent, self isolating, distrustful, and competitive. Lex called her out with those words, that they laughed at her, that they humiliated her. It wasn’t just a shot to her heart about how she finally thought she had a group of people (cause, let us remember EVERYONE knew but her, regardless of why or how they knew... it’s not just Kara she’s mad at here) that could be a real family to her, but that she wasn’t smart enough to spot the lies and secrets surrounding it all. And he was. She not only feels hurt. She feels foolish. And, just one more thing that Lex had seen before her. That’s a lot to absorb.
Kara Danvers was able to have her biological parents for a while before Krypton went Kablooie. Then she landed and got more loving parents. She got a loving a supportive sister. She had a loving supportive cousin (albeit distantly). Her entire family was geared around supporting each other. Though they couldn’t have possibly of understood what it was like to be in Kara’s shoes during the whole loose (literally) your entire world event, they were their for her to help her rebuild that world. Kara is the emblem of hope because that is what she has been given her entire existence. Hope in family, hope in friends, hope In heroes to protect those who are meek and can not fight for themselves. She is the true representation of the idealistic Superhero, defender of the meek, protector of all, and those who must come into their power to understand the consequences of wielding it. After all, as the show has already touched on with the Harun-El, Kara knows the dangers of obtaining power without understanding both the pros and cons of it’s use, as they had to learn that themselves throughout childhood and as they grew as a Superhero, and is hesitant that the menial public should have access to such advancements.
So in this you find the most wonderful duality we all face down in Superhero lands: The ability of the people to Champion for themselves and the potential consequences of power going awry (additionally the Supergirl 1984 movie makes a great example of this) VS a reliance on heroes in capes who we summon from the sky with our pleas for help along with their ability to decide to wether they elect themselves Gods.
I think Lena and Kara playing either side of this scenario as adversaries would be bloody brilliant. They’ve obviously been touching on this since season 1, but I think that Lena would be the best direct representation for this. Even more so because, like many epic rivalries through out comic book series (ex: Prof. X/Magneto; Spider-Man/Green Goblin; Batwoman/Alice; Wolverine/Sabertooth; Batman/Two Face), they started/are loving friends/family. How two people can have the same information, process it through two different filters, and come out the other side with two radically different viewpoints is about as human as you can get. If Kara’s real connection with Lena was that she could be truly human with her, then this exemplification of the consequences of their choices would be an epic storyline.
I know this is super long so I’ll finish it up with this. In my opinion, the BEST part of the Superhero are their strongest adversaries. They are the ones that bring out the best and the absolute worst in their superhero. They challenge them. They help define them. They bring them to the brink and question wether they will fall over that line. They make them see how far they will go to protect someone they love. When that person is the one who stands in opposition to them, it becomes a defining moment in who they choose to be as a hero. It’s not about Good vs Evil, that’s to absolute a concept. It’s about how we the viewers, and the principals themselves, view justice and morality in the immensely grey areas that lie within them. It’s about dealing with the consequences of those choices and weighing wether it is or was worth the cost. This is why I want Lena and Kara to be adversaries. This is a story I’d want to watch.
I mean... they make up I’ll be happy with that too, I just think there’s so much more potential the other way. Regardless... NEW SEASON VERY SOON NOW! Yay!
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 12
It seems the consensus is that Lena will go darker than ever but be redeemed and Kara and Lena will be friends again.
That’s got me thinking about what I’d like to see with this “fight for Lena’s soul”. One thing I’d like to see is Kara getting frustrated and even mad because she can’t help her friend stop making bad choices. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want your help. Intellectually Kara knows that but it’s still hard watching someone you love self destruct. To compound things Lena finding out Kara’s secret the way she did, golf clap to the writers on that I’d be hard pressed to come up with more devastating scenario than the one we got, means Kara’s the catalyst and any overtures by Kara could drive Lena further down the rabbit hole. I’d like to see Kara be worried about having to actively stop Lena to save innocent people. Lena’s gonna have to be the one to make the first move in her own redemption and not being able to do something isn’t easy for Kara. I’d wouldn’t mind a scene with Kara destroying things in the DEO training room out of frustration/anger as a call back to season twos Luthors.
As part of Lena’s redemption I’d like to see her make a show of faith in Kara. Kara’s always believed in Lena but part of what’s happened is Lena’s lost faith in Kara. I think I’ve come up with a way for Lena to do that. When Supergirl found out Lena could make Kryptonite she wanted Lena to give the formula to Alex and never make it again. Lena could give her formula to Alex, or better yet give part of it to Alex and the other part to Brainy so they’d have to work together to use it, then Lena could have J’onn wipe the formula from her memory.
That’s got me thinking about what I’d like to see with this “fight for Lena’s soul”. One thing I’d like to see is Kara getting frustrated and even mad because she can’t help her friend stop making bad choices. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want your help. Intellectually Kara knows that but it’s still hard watching someone you love self destruct. To compound things Lena finding out Kara’s secret the way she did, golf clap to the writers on that I’d be hard pressed to come up with more devastating scenario than the one we got, means Kara’s the catalyst and any overtures by Kara could drive Lena further down the rabbit hole. I’d like to see Kara be worried about having to actively stop Lena to save innocent people. Lena’s gonna have to be the one to make the first move in her own redemption and not being able to do something isn’t easy for Kara. I’d wouldn’t mind a scene with Kara destroying things in the DEO training room out of frustration/anger as a call back to season twos Luthors.
As part of Lena’s redemption I’d like to see her make a show of faith in Kara. Kara’s always believed in Lena but part of what’s happened is Lena’s lost faith in Kara. I think I’ve come up with a way for Lena to do that. When Supergirl found out Lena could make Kryptonite she wanted Lena to give the formula to Alex and never make it again. Lena could give her formula to Alex, or better yet give part of it to Alex and the other part to Brainy so they’d have to work together to use it, then Lena could have J’onn wipe the formula from her memory.
Hope, Help and Compassion for all
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 13
@Kelly,
The difference I see with Kara's secret and someone in a group not being told something is that Kara's secret was kept because it's a safety/security reason as part of her job. Yes, more people knew then should have, but really the only people outside of the DEO who she told were Winn and Nia. Winn she told before she understood the severity of who she was and about the possible repercussions of him knowing. James already knew and the DEO are all part of an organization that has the ability to maintain secrecy as one of their primary job requirements. Even they had to be mind-wiped after they became a liability tp keeping that secrecy. With Lena having close connections to a known enemy of both Supergirl and the DEO, it would be completely unprofessional for Kara to tell her who she was JUST because they're friends.
As for Nia and Lillian knowing, well I just chalk that up to inconsistent/poor writing. Lillian has known for three seasons yet nothing ever came of it, which is ridiculous as an oversight and Nia should never have been told either.
Yes, I can understand a bit on Lena's side that she's hurt because of her trust issues. But, Kara has her own history of issues yet is able to move past them in order to maintain relationships. And Lena, as someone who is supposed to have a high level of intelligence, is a corporate owner and a scientist with her own ethically questionable behavior, let's give her a little credit to be able to cool down, be willing to listen to Kara's side of it and think rationally about the whole thing.
Every relationship at every level has difficulties but if it's important to those in it they'll do what's necessary to fix those issues.
And if Lena's not willing to do that well, I guess she's not really someone I would want Kara to be friends with and I would say that Kara needs to cut her loses on that one.
I'm not disputing any of that. I know why Kara didn"t tell her. I'm looking at this from Lena's POV. I learned a long time ago that people's perception IS their truth. Doesn't matter if their perception is correct or not. What Lena sees is that every single person in Kara's life knew she was Sipergirl. It doesn't matter how they know, the simple fact is, they all knew....so her question is, why wasn't she told if she was like family as Kara said several times. She sat at a Thanksgiving Family dinner with people who ALL knew that Kara was Supergirl. When someone suffers from trust issues, as she does?......that is absolutely devastating. I have severe trust issues, extremely debilitating in relationships. I know exactly what she is feeling. It doesn't matter why others knew, her question will always be....was it because Kara didnt trust her in a way she finally was able to trust Kara, or as Kara says because she wanted her to be safe? For someone with devastating trust issues, it will always be the negative, no matter how much they try to believe otherwise.
Profile Pic by https://twitter.com/samayerswrites
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 14
I am certain that Kara and Lena will reconcile. Although it is likely (even inevitable) that the relationship will be affected in a substantive way, I think it may become even stronger. This will only happen after much drama, of course. But Melissa stated that season 5 would be a battle for Lena's soul, and I just cannot see TPTB allowing Supergirl to lose that fight. I expect that this struggle will be a major theme in the first half of the season leading up to the Crisis. That event will be an epiphany for Lena and reconciliation will follow.
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 15
I think they will be friends again after a lot of angst for both characters and the audience. A lot of people initially saw the SDCC teaser trailer as proof Lena “finally” going evil. I say finally in quotes because as many have said before if you
assume that Lena going evil is inevitable because she is Lex’s half-brother then you must also await Winn going evil because of his father. Evil is not genetically transmitted like green eyes or male pattern baldness.
The trailer has to be combined with the rather practiced responses the cast & producers gave in interviews. “Battle for Lena’s soul” is what most people latched onto, but I think equally important is Katie’s comment that Lena’s going to play her cards close to the vest.” Lena is grieving a perceived loss of her friendship with Kara and as we know grief comes in stages and those stages are not linear. So I postulate that the confrontations in the trailer between Lena & Kara and at the end between Lena & Supergirl are in Virtual Reality (the funky blue eye effect). Lena will continue to interact with Kara without letting her know what Lex revealed for a while. This is a type of bargaining-trying to convince herself that she doesn’t have to lose Kara. Meanwhile, trips into the VR world allow her to express her anger at Kara/SG. However, the more time Lena spends in VR the more her “soul” is at risk—because the overarching theme of “bad tech” or negative effects of tech have to up the stakes. I suspect the show’s version of VR will have a SwordArt Online aspect-that you could get stuck inside the VR and that the tech can be hijacked to control people.
Another comment from SDCC was Melissa saying she thinks Kara still has to reveal herself to Lena. This scenario gives Kara a chance to explain and the best explanation was actually Katie McGrath’s from the round table interviews at SDCC 2018–that Lena not knowing gave Kara someone to be “human” with—to just be Kara without the expectations that people put on her when they know she’s SG. When Lena works through her anger, she will realize that so much of what Lex showed her was Kara working to keep Lena safe. Hopefully, once the “Superfriends” know Lena is in the loop, J’onn and Alex can testify to Kara defending Lena when they refused to believe her innocence. Alex (or Kara) needs to point out how Alex’s memory and that of other DEO agents had to be wiped to protect Kara. Had Lena known her secret, her working with the DEO would have required the same wipe. No way Lena would want someone messing with her eidetic memory.
The show has made an effort at times to stress that Kara is not her cousin. Men and women react to situations differently. It makes sense that Kara and Lena should have a different outcome of a dispute than Clark & Lex. There’s a path back to friendship for Kara & Lena. Hopefully, the writers will give the storyline time enough to play out like they did with Alex’s memory rather than rush through it like the Red Daughter part of last season.
assume that Lena going evil is inevitable because she is Lex’s half-brother then you must also await Winn going evil because of his father. Evil is not genetically transmitted like green eyes or male pattern baldness.
The trailer has to be combined with the rather practiced responses the cast & producers gave in interviews. “Battle for Lena’s soul” is what most people latched onto, but I think equally important is Katie’s comment that Lena’s going to play her cards close to the vest.” Lena is grieving a perceived loss of her friendship with Kara and as we know grief comes in stages and those stages are not linear. So I postulate that the confrontations in the trailer between Lena & Kara and at the end between Lena & Supergirl are in Virtual Reality (the funky blue eye effect). Lena will continue to interact with Kara without letting her know what Lex revealed for a while. This is a type of bargaining-trying to convince herself that she doesn’t have to lose Kara. Meanwhile, trips into the VR world allow her to express her anger at Kara/SG. However, the more time Lena spends in VR the more her “soul” is at risk—because the overarching theme of “bad tech” or negative effects of tech have to up the stakes. I suspect the show’s version of VR will have a SwordArt Online aspect-that you could get stuck inside the VR and that the tech can be hijacked to control people.
Another comment from SDCC was Melissa saying she thinks Kara still has to reveal herself to Lena. This scenario gives Kara a chance to explain and the best explanation was actually Katie McGrath’s from the round table interviews at SDCC 2018–that Lena not knowing gave Kara someone to be “human” with—to just be Kara without the expectations that people put on her when they know she’s SG. When Lena works through her anger, she will realize that so much of what Lex showed her was Kara working to keep Lena safe. Hopefully, once the “Superfriends” know Lena is in the loop, J’onn and Alex can testify to Kara defending Lena when they refused to believe her innocence. Alex (or Kara) needs to point out how Alex’s memory and that of other DEO agents had to be wiped to protect Kara. Had Lena known her secret, her working with the DEO would have required the same wipe. No way Lena would want someone messing with her eidetic memory.
The show has made an effort at times to stress that Kara is not her cousin. Men and women react to situations differently. It makes sense that Kara and Lena should have a different outcome of a dispute than Clark & Lex. There’s a path back to friendship for Kara & Lena. Hopefully, the writers will give the storyline time enough to play out like they did with Alex’s memory rather than rush through it like the Red Daughter part of last season.
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 16
Ok....I'm just excited to see how it plays out...I think it is going to be some great fireworks.
Profile Pic by https://twitter.com/samayerswrites
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 17
@Kelly,
The difference I see with Kara's secret and someone in a group not being told something is that Kara's secret was kept because it's a safety/security reason as part of her job. Yes, more people knew then should have, but really the only people outside of the DEO who she told were Winn and Nia. Winn she told before she understood the severity of who she was and about the possible repercussions of him knowing. James already knew and the DEO are all part of an organization that has the ability to maintain secrecy as one of their primary job requirements. Even they had to be mind-wiped after they became a liability tp keeping that secrecy. With Lena having close connections to a known enemy of both Supergirl and the DEO, it would be completely unprofessional for Kara to tell her who she was JUST because they're friends.
As for Nia and Lillian knowing, well I just chalk that up to inconsistent/poor writing. Lillian has known for three seasons yet nothing ever came of it, which is ridiculous as an oversight and Nia should never have been told either.
Yes, I can understand a bit on Lena's side that she's hurt because of her trust issues. But, Kara has her own history of issues yet is able to move past them in order to maintain relationships. And Lena, as someone who is supposed to have a high level of intelligence, is a corporate owner and a scientist with her own ethically questionable behavior, let's give her a little credit to be able to cool down, be willing to listen to Kara's side of it and think rationally about the whole thing.
Every relationship at every level has difficulties but if it's important to those in it they'll do what's necessary to fix those issues.
And if Lena's not willing to do that well, I guess she's not really someone I would want Kara to be friends with and I would say that Kara needs to cut her loses on that one.
The difference I see with Kara's secret and someone in a group not being told something is that Kara's secret was kept because it's a safety/security reason as part of her job. Yes, more people knew then should have, but really the only people outside of the DEO who she told were Winn and Nia. Winn she told before she understood the severity of who she was and about the possible repercussions of him knowing. James already knew and the DEO are all part of an organization that has the ability to maintain secrecy as one of their primary job requirements. Even they had to be mind-wiped after they became a liability tp keeping that secrecy. With Lena having close connections to a known enemy of both Supergirl and the DEO, it would be completely unprofessional for Kara to tell her who she was JUST because they're friends.
As for Nia and Lillian knowing, well I just chalk that up to inconsistent/poor writing. Lillian has known for three seasons yet nothing ever came of it, which is ridiculous as an oversight and Nia should never have been told either.
Yes, I can understand a bit on Lena's side that she's hurt because of her trust issues. But, Kara has her own history of issues yet is able to move past them in order to maintain relationships. And Lena, as someone who is supposed to have a high level of intelligence, is a corporate owner and a scientist with her own ethically questionable behavior, let's give her a little credit to be able to cool down, be willing to listen to Kara's side of it and think rationally about the whole thing.
Every relationship at every level has difficulties but if it's important to those in it they'll do what's necessary to fix those issues.
And if Lena's not willing to do that well, I guess she's not really someone I would want Kara to be friends with and I would say that Kara needs to cut her loses on that one.
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 18
Kara didn't betray Lena. She kept a part of herself secret because she was not ready to share. As Lena has done quite a number of times.
With that covered. I wouldn't mind if it goes either way. Lena deciding that her not knowing about Kara was some kind of betrayal even if it wasn't and taking revenge. And Kara having to fight to resolve it and then a line being crossed when Lena inevitably causes harm as she has done consistently since S2--Daxamite invasion being the main one and Harun El drugs in the market another--and Kara having to give up on it.
Or, Lena finally coming to her senses and Kara reassuring her that she does have her back as she has shown time and again. But, please don't keep ruining other people's lives because you need therapy.
With that covered. I wouldn't mind if it goes either way. Lena deciding that her not knowing about Kara was some kind of betrayal even if it wasn't and taking revenge. And Kara having to fight to resolve it and then a line being crossed when Lena inevitably causes harm as she has done consistently since S2--Daxamite invasion being the main one and Harun El drugs in the market another--and Kara having to give up on it.
Or, Lena finally coming to her senses and Kara reassuring her that she does have her back as she has shown time and again. But, please don't keep ruining other people's lives because you need therapy.
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 19
Kara didn't betray Lena. She kept a part of herself secret because she was not ready to share. As Lena has done quite a number of times.This 100 times over. I am so over the show always making it appear that Kara is the bad guy in their friendship. That it is she that has done something wrong and has to grovel to Lena as some kind of penance. I know Kara is a superhero and supposed to be self-sacrificing and all that, but if we're trying to show that anyone, even humans, can be a superhero why can't these folks do a bit of self-sacrificing of their own. Kara had a right to not tell Lena or anyone else about her secret and while I look forward to Lena going more on the evil side, I think her finding out that Kara kept a secret as the catalyst to it is very shallow and weak.
With that covered. I wouldn't mind if it goes either way. Lena deciding that her not knowing about Kara was some kind of betrayal even if it wasn't and taking revenge. And Kara having to fight to resolve it and then a line being crossed when Lena inevitably causes harm as she has done consistently since S2--Daxamite invasion being the main one and Harun El drugs in the market another--and Kara having to give up on it.
Or, Lena finally coming to her senses and Kara reassuring her that she does have her back as she has shown time and again. But, please don't keep ruining other people's lives because you need therapy.
- more than a month ago
- Supergirl General Discussion
- # 20
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