Supergirl Season 2: Divisive Fan Groups

Quite an interesting discussion! Thanks to all for your input and for the admin for starting the thread. Now for my 2 cents worth: I really don't follow Twitter or any of the other websites very much, but from what I've seen and heard about, I'm reminded of a wonderful line from "Inherit the Wind'" when Spencer Tracy comments that "fanaticism and ignorance are forever busy, and need feeding." It's a sad fact of life today that so many are so angry about so many different things (often without justification, but that's another topic). I'm neither a psychologist or a sociologist, but it seems that many people have a deep need to be angry; if they are not angry they are not happy. In the anonymity of the internet they can rave away. The absence of that is what makes this website so great. Yes, we have spirited debates and disagreements, but I think that many of us feel we "know" each other, and it fosters a more civil dialog. So I guess my advice is to follow Supergirl.TV and ignore the rest.

Mon El is going to tear the fandom apart. It's only going to get worse as the season continues.

The myopic focus on this character and his relationship with Supergirl has altered the basic dynamic of the show.

I totally disagree, fans of only certain aspects of the show, certain story lines are what I see on social media as the biggest problem. Monday nights last year, I use to go on Twitter in between the East coast and West coast showings type in #Supergirl and have a BLAST....

I do that now, and all it is is "shipping" wars and people upset that their ship is not getting screen time, and absolutely typing tweets that are "rude, crude and socially unacceptable". I see the word "HATE" so often it is ridiculous, I see tweets from certain shippers that actually HATE the fandom that loves the show and tweets about every relationship, every story line....like that is a bad thing.

The fandom of Supergirl that was there last season, and is still here this season will be fine if they base their enjoyment on the series as a whole. If they get caught up in this shipping stuff, in this screen time stuff....then yeah they will not enjoy it and possibly fall away. But that isn't the shows fault, that is their own fault.

The only negative I see, is that I can no longer go on Twitter in between the east and west coast showings and have fun with the writers any more because of the absolutely hateful things that people are posting to them, and it is coming in a GRAND MAJORITY from ONE GROUP, with another in close 2nd. But I will leave it at that....and within the next few episodes I will have those 2 groups on mute as a whole, and go back to enjoying the show for what it is, a Superhero comic book action series about a young woman and the life she lives and the stories that go with that...

I had to split my comment; it was turning out to be too long.

Put simply, if you like Maggie Sawyer and Alex Danver's relationship, why don't you like Mon-El?

Well, I am not the person to whom this question is directed at here because I don't ship either of them. (I have noticed over the years that I have a preference for the familial and platonic relationships over romance. Unlike many who think that having a romance is necessary for a fulfilling life, I think I am just fine with friends and family. I am basically asexual and most-of-the-time, though not always, aromantic.)

But, I have been hanging around in tumblr a lot, and other review sites, so I can offer some insights, I believe. Besides, thoughts from some of us folks who are here for the Danvers and folks from Season 1 might also help, right?

Okay.

Alex-Maggie vs. Mon El

Alex's relationship with Maggie has been almost wholly from the point of view of Alex; the character we have been invested in since season 1.

Besides, that you can kind of understand why Alex falls for Maggie. Someone who fights against crime; is open-minded; likes aliens (which is very important to Alex for obvious reasons); is brave and mostly generous.

Alex's coming out arc has been very well handled by the show. A lot of gay people saw themselves and their own experience in that. I saw myself in that.

And because we cannot ignore representation and the message the show is sending.

There has been a lot of happiness that it gave gay folks including teens. It gave validation to a lot of adults who barely see themselves in TV shows especially when it comes to cop shows, procedural and superhero shows.

All of these make them very invested in Alex-Maggie.

Compare that to Mon El.

Ignore the actor and the chemistry between Melissa and Chris for a moment.

His story line is basically this. Told, not from Kara's, our hero's, point of view, but from the point of view of Mon El.

Rich privileged guy (we don't know he is a prince, but we are pretty sure), who has grown up with not a care in the world. Shows the same attitude in the outside world when he comes across our lead character, the woman. He thinks she is selfish and attention-seeking. He doesn't see the point of all this caring for other people.

After a lot of harping from other people, including Alex, he decides that he could do something. (There was this one happening during that cage episode, Changing? when he offers help to someone; that was cool, but it was also fleeting and not touched up on.)

And then, he falls for our lead-character. Because she is pretty decent during the time when the two of them spend time in a cage. Very brave.

And in the next couple of episodes he is back not being all that caring about other people but Kara; he comes to Cat Co and accompanies Kara not because it is the right thing to do but because he wants to spend time with her. And then, he is back to being rather a jerk. Or, at least, telling Kara not to go looking for abducted strangers. Not listening when he is asked to go for backup and instead endangering her. Telling her, that she was looking for trouble when she tries to save them.

But, his crush for her continues, and he falls for her. Because she is very brave this time around too.

And, this is in canon, he says it that he likes her that is why he was with her.

And then, he pines for her by drinking club soda (that by the way is not changing for your love; or being inspired; that is wallowing. and telling his date about his crush).

And Kara is told that.

And the next episode, Kara suddenly decides that she is falling for him too. For what reason? We are not shown that at all. For what reason other than the fact that her friends with their new toys, and her sister with her new love, are ignoring her?

She make an odd speech about him keeping on proving her wrong, which is not quite the truth. He doesn't prove her wrong. She had too low an expectation from him owing to the prejudices, and with that in mind, anything half-way decent he does is considered great in her eyes. (It'd be an interesting story arc if that is what is happening here. That her eyes are blind the other way because she is compensating for her prejudices too much.)

And then, in the previous episode, he tells her that "she is full of herself" and then at the end that she is his kryptonite, and that is why he kept doing all those bad things in this episode. And then, he apologises, and she kisses him.

He keeps hurting her by saying bad things to her. And then apologising. He keeps disappointing her. He keeps saying he is trying, although, we are not shown where he is trying (except when he tries to backup Kara, and even there, he doesn't listen to her; it could be more of a cultural, I need to protect my mate who belongs to me thing and that is how he acts).

And then he ends it by saying all those bad things he did this episode was owing to his love for her. She was the reason for his weakness and his bad choices.

Have you ever heard that anywhere else before? Any of this story?

At best, it is a story that we have seen a lot before. So many times that it is basically a cliche. Rich entitled guy, meets a girl, is touched because she is so unlike what he has encountered until now, and falls for her. She reciprocates because what else could she do? He likes her, so she should reciprocate. They end up married and live happily ever after. They make a great team and fight crime together. The end.

At worst. It is a (not may be "the" picture of an abusive relationship where one of the people involved is not all that great, keeps failing, keeps promising to do better, and then gets forgiven just because he apologises. And oh, and blames at least some, if not all, of his bad choices on the women he "allegedly" crushes on.

And think, that all of this is played unfortunately by an actor who is white, straight and male. With his richness, he is the epitome of privilege in US.

What kind of an idea does this reinforce? What kind of message does that send to any young person watching that. Or a person of any age.

Boys, as long as you promise to do better, even if you don't do well, you will get your dream girl. Boys, that girl saying no to you, doesn't really mean it. She really loves you and is just not aware of it yet. Boys, people will and should always make allowances for your background and your poor upbringing, just like the viewers of the show has been making allowances for Mon El being a Daxamite. I mean the poor guy grew up in that culture. Cut him slack.

Boys, if you are a white guy, you just have to promise to be better. Especially, if instead of being a nerd, geek, insecure kind of person (like Winn), you are the football jock.

While if you are black, like James, you will be dropped for no reason. Even if you are heroic, kind, generous and all that. (The reason that she wants to find herself would have made sense if they had stuck with it; instead, she falls for the next guy who confesses his feelings to her.). And that goes for the nerd too, may be.

Girls: A. If a guy like Mon El confesses his feelings to you, you should totally return that feeling. It'd be weird if you don't. That is what happens in every story. B. See he apologises after being a jerk, so that is all right. C. as of this episode. all the bad choices that your partner makes, that is your fault. And D. no matter how bad, you always give the guy a chance.

Oh and boys and girls, Kara was lonely because she said no to Mon El. And she deserves that fate because she rejected the guy. After he risked his heart for her. (I have seen screenshot of YouTube comments to that effect.) And she dumped James too.

People who do ship Mon El and Kara do say that he is from a different culture and so he cannot be blamed for his attitude and also that he is trying. Although, we have barely seen anything at all where he tries (except for that one second thing at the end of Changing). He does not interact at all with others. All his time is spent with Kara, so we don't even know what he is like in her absence.

So, basically, the show, and everyone who loves the ship seems to want Kara and everyone who opposes the ship to give him credit for what he hasn't done based on what he vows he would do. In show, he might end up fighting for the good. In real-life, how good a message that is I am not too sure. Most of the time, it looks like a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention, how cliched.

And did I say, all the falling for her is shown from his point of view, not hers? In her show, it is his feelings that is the POV. That matters and are given centre stage. She reacts to his. It is not her initiative.

So, Sanvers ship and Mon-El-Kara ships are very different.

(Cont'd) in the next comment.

Jondix squeeze kiwi ... and gets an orange juice ... kidding, my hug was too hard :-*
evrafter where are you ?

Over here *waves and jumps up and down*

As most around here know, I am very straight forward with my opinions....lol

With that said, I will always be loyal to the fans here, and to the fans on the site that I moderate as well. That is a given with me, and that loyalty extends to the owners of those sites as well. So, anytime that I see or feel that those people are being treated unfairly, I will strongly speak out against that, I think people that know me here, on SHH and follow me on Twitter would agree that I am not blowing hot air with the above statement.

Eric is correct there are groups out there that hold an agenda when watching this show and feeding into the fan base. This particular series is not the only one that has gone through this....Arrow has had a terrible "shipping" war for years, Flash has gone through it as well, LoT to a certain degree, and of course the first of this group Agents Of Shield. It is one of the reasons why most of the actors stay away from ALL SITES, it's a shame that they cannot frequent these sites, but I for one am very glad that they do not.

As far as my site (SHH) and this site, we have not really had the problem of certain groups coming in whether they "ship" one couple or another. There was a time that we had a few come in and hijack the news comments on the front page, but not often. SHH is lucky that our Front Page News comments are separate and far away from the forum. TWITTER and Tmblr however are not as pleasant as this site. I have used my block and mute option on TWITTER moreso recently than ever before....lol, THAT is how I would encourage those of you that frequent those areas and do not like what you are reading, to do.....rather than partake in the divisiveness...I got pulled in Monday night and a little Tuesday, and that was when I decided that the Mute/Block was the best option, that is what I would suggest.

As for me, I HIGHLY respect those fans that have been a fan of Supergirl for decades from the early years of the comics to now. I learned that respect from being a non-comic book reader, joining a large comic book/ movie site having absolutely no knowledge of these superheros except that i had watched a movie or two about them. They taught me, and because of that I respect them. That is something that I believe the "new" fans to Supergirl need to do far more as well. LEARN from them....

This is not a show about homogeneous vs. heterogeneous relationships it is not a show about Feminism vs. Male Empowerment, it is not a show about Conservative vs. Liberal, it is not a show about Black vs. White......it is about ALL OF THOSE THINGS living, learning, coping, crying, laughing, fighting TOGETHER, not FIGHTING AGAINST each other. IMO, this show would not be what it is, or as enjoyable as it is IF ANY OF THOSE THINGS were lost. Therefore, I don't see one above the other, I don't see one more important than the other. I feel, however, that it is KARA/SUPERGIRL that is the central point that all of those things revolve around, so...............IT IS LOGICAL, that those that are closest to her will have screen time above the others. The only time I'm going to gripe about screen time is when KARA/SUPERGIRL does not have the lion share of it. THAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. I will also gripe when KARA/SUPERGIRL is not the lead in vanquishing the foe, THAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. I will also gripe when other heroes take her time on screen, THAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. hahahahahahahahaha....because it is Kara/Supergirl that should be the nodal point of this series. SO, it is this point that I try and find clarity and agreement on with all of the fans above....IF THEY DO NOT agree on that point, then they go on mute/block AND that problem is taken care of. That is how I navigate all of these sites, and thus far it has worked beautifully.

And know this for sure, this site and its regulars, SHH and its regulars will have my backing, always.........just a warning, I can get testy when those people are disrespected.

Just my two cents...... or maybe 5 cents...

Thank you to you all! This has been a very therapeutic thread for Kelsey and I. I don't know that we intended it to be that but all of your comments, grace, care, and thoughtful replies has reminded us why this site has the best Supergirl community on the web!

If we were to sum up an outcome of this thread in a simple statement, it would have to be; "Continue to love the parts of the show you love, love them passionately and get lost in the majesty of it all. But know that what makes this show great for some isn't true for all. Be kind, be thoughtful and allow all to enjoy every aspect not by tearing down what you don't like, but by raising up the parts you do."

You guys are an incredible group of fans, thank you again!

First off I’d like to start by thanking the admins of this site. Next I would like to thank my fellow contributors for keeping it the most respectful fan site I have belonged to in a long time. People have disagreed with me but never once have I felt it was personal nor has anyone taken it personally when I disagree with them. I’m not on twitter but have recently quit the FB pages of every other Supergirl site but this one and the official site from CW, and I am seriously considering ditching that one.

Cat said it last season “A woman has to work twice as hard to be thought of as half as good”. The fact that we are getting a third season is a testament to the cast, crew, and as much as we love to hate them the writers. I read somewhere that the show almost didn’t happen because some people in a focus group saw the pilot and were “uncomfortable” with Supergirl being punched by a man. I believe it’s unprecedented for a show with ratings as high to change networks, so that’s yet another challenge.

I do think some of the fandom division mirrors the current deeply divided social/political climate in the United States. Arrow is too dark for me but I do watch Flash and occasionally Legends but it seems that of all the shows in the Berlantiverse Supergirl is the one chosen to be more than just entertainment, they want it to mean something. It’s the only one that really tackles hot button issues. Example, it would be pure denial to think having Mxy call Supergirl a Nasty Woman wouldn’t be seen as a political statement. Side note Melissa probably enjoyed that as well as being able to say “you want to see nuts, let’s go nuts”. I know that type of thing’s not on Flash. Bottom line addressing or even mentioning hot button social issues is going to attract irrational haters and season two has stepped that up.

The most hate seems to be reserved for James and Mon-El and I think there’s a connection. First there were haters who didn’t like Mehcad being cast in the first place. The fact that James wasn’t written well compared to the other characters in season one and I think it’s safe to say hasn’t been written better in season two only fuels the James haters. Mon-El on the other hand is well written, you don’t have to like a character to think they are well written. I think the show did a disservice to both characters by the abrupt end to James/Kara. I get how it looks bad to have Kara break up with the human guy representing a minority group because she wants to concentrate on her career only to hook up with the an alien guy who’s racially speaking the closest to her in the universe. This caused some of the Mon-El hate right out of the gate. I wouldn’t have liked this either if I thought the producers were racially motivated but I just don’t see that given their track record. It would have been better if the writers had had Kara and James go on a couple of awkward dates then mutually decide to go back to being good friends thus avoiding the James verses Mon-El thing.

I’ll admit last summer when the EPs said a character on the CW DC shows would explore their sexuality I had no doubt it would be Alex. My first reaction was please don’t, because I thought of all the ways it would bring hate upon the show. I imagined the writers botching it and the LGBTQ community rightfully being disappointed. Thanks be to Rao that didn’t happen as most agree the story line was well written and superbly acted. Unfortunately the other expected hate is still happening.

In final summery love this site and let’s continue the constructive discussions.

As Melissa has said in several interviews....

Kara's optimism, hope, desire to do good, and love for family and friends is at the very core of her being....and no matter what happens, she will always go back to that. It is so strong that Melissa has said that when she's not sure of where to go with Kara, she simply goes back to that....it's that simple.

When I watch the dark hard scenes, it just makes the light, fun, optimistic, hopeful Kara look that much brighter.

Well, it looks like some have figured out their own solution to this and it is #RESPECT SUPERGIRL CAST which I believe was trending last night. So pretty much stop with the name calling, fighting, etc, respect the cast and the hard work they are doing for our enjoyment.

Some still are miffed here and there, but it seems a fairly large group are wanting to move on from all of this.

Here's my take:

Supergirl/Kara hasn't changed, really. As Kara, she's more assertive in her job and more outgoing with strangers. She's growing and maturing. She is the core of the show. Supergirl's kindness, strength, generosity, and unselfish heroism are what make the show a success.

I like Mon-El. He's also changing as a person, but due to Kara's influence. On some level which he is probably unaware, he wants to be a better person, one who is worthy of Kara. I find that wonderful in a man. Needless to say, I approve of Kara and Mon-El and want to see their relationship progress.

I like Alex and Maggie. Actually, I would like to see more of their relationship without the drama. Poor Alex deserves to be happy. The notion of a same-sex relationship in an action/adventure superhero show is very daring and the writers are doing it right. It was nice to read the article on how that storyline is changing lives for the better.

I wish that M'Gann hadn't left. J'onn deserves some happiness too. But without M'Gann, I worry that he will be sidelined as a character.

I don't mind Guardian, but I don't see the character evolving. It's nice to see Winn out in the field being the man in the van. And speaking of...

I like Winn's girlfriend Lyra. I think it's so cool that he's okay with her being physically stronger and the more assertive one. Not every man can be Dwayne the Rock Johnson.

To sum up: I'm fine with where the writers are taking us. If we just got a retread of season 1, the show would die. But people will disagree with the new characters and new plotlines. Social media have a tendency to bring out people's bad sides, which is the opposite of what Supergirl is about. I don't want Supergirl to be a Fort Rozz escapee of the week which Supergirl defeats in 42 minutes, flies home, and watches TV while eating pizza and potstickers.

I trust the writers to do good by our hero. I'm along for the ride, all the way. I DVR each episode, then I went on iTunes and bought a season pass for all the episodes and watch every one a third time on the CW app. Apparently the powers that be pay attention to statistics like that. I want Supergirl to thrive and do well. Sure I've nitpicked details like the over the knee flaps on her boots, but overall, I'm very happy with the show. I love Melissa and Chyler as actresses. Whoever cast them deserves a raise!

I miss Cat, because she was such a good strong character and Calista did such great work as the character. But maybe it's okay for Kara not to have a safety net to fall back on, that she has to deal with the nasty, uncouth, and negative Snapper on her own. It would be nice to see some of Kara's positivity rub off on him!

Finally, about Lena. I like that character as well. I'm glad that Kara has a female friend. Aside from Alex, all her friends are men. So kudos to somebody for realizing that detail.

I actually just mentioned something along these same lines in last night's episode thread our Kiwi always sets up for us. Personally, I think you did a terrific job addressing the issue.

I actually appreciate the fans who populate this forum. On the news page, comments seem to stray towards being a bit "harsh" from time to time. But the same harshness doesn't seem to spill over into the forum as much.

As for me, I'm not a huge "Sanvers" fan, for my own personal reasons. But, I certainly wouldn't attack or put down a Team Sanvers member. And, I've actually appreciated the incredible acting from both ladies. But my goodnes...you are absolutely right... I have seen some rather venomous battles out there from all kinds of Supergirl fanbases... Team Karmel going after Sanvers while Supercorp (Lena-Kara shippers) go after Karmel.... guardian... And all other things you've mentioned, above. I once made the mistake (before Sanvers was even a thing or that Alex was even gay), of tweeting the writers during an episode about Winn and Alex being awesome together in scenes and... MAN!!...it was like the deep dark web awakened and attacked me like a pack of ravenous wolves..."She's GAY, you blankety blank blank!!!!" Foul language, calling me foul slangs, trying to go through my whole twitter. So I quickly retreated back to our forum family. We disagree, from time to time... Like you mentioned. We break scenes down and discuss weaknesses. But do so, generally, fairly, respectfully, and meet each other in "the middle" when we don't end up on the same "side" of issues.

I think perhaps...the show has picked up some younger fans this season??...which has its pros and cons. The only real con being, PERHAPS... SOME of the newer fans don't always choose the best path for discussing differences? But, I guess you could say not all of the older fanbase choose their words wisely, either. lol

But of all the sites I feel most comfortable participating in...the site I feel contains more of the O.G. Supergirl fans... (fans from the first days of it airing)...seem to have found their way here. And then I've enjoyed seeing THOSE peeps welcoming new forum members.

Not sure much can be done off site. I like what Kelly suggested to me in the other thread, when I mentioned what I had witnessed last night.. the venom being spewed in the Supergirl "thread" as it was trending.. She suggested mute and block. Saddly it wasnt in my newsfeed that I COULD block. I'll just have to learn not to get hyped to see what comments were flooding the trend.

Keep up the terrific job you're doing here admin. Really...all we as Team Supergirl can do here is not jump into the venom, welcome new commentors, and gently steer them to keep comments positive.

I wish I could be of some help here. was the Valentine's day episode, after all. One might have proposed that therefore each of these events we saw peaked for this episode and we will be seeing something else at least more in the future. To satisfy all the readers, the shows would need to be three hours long. Daily. It seems to me that the threads here have mostly been reasonable, even on a topic as delicate as the one noted by the administrator. However, please be nice, everyone. It matters.I write as someone who made a few suggestions last year about the rules as written, and occasionally has suggested things this year.

Having said that, let me urge you all to punch up the "support" button if you enjoy being here.

I would think the largest fandom civil war is either between Mon-El shippers and Lena shippers or Guardian haters and Mon-El haters. About Sanvers I think we recall I got involved in a "fight" earlier, but that was because I felt there was too much drama involving Sanvers, not because of LGBT. Either way I think that was resolved too and I'm actually pretty fine about their relationship.

Also this site is awesome. Thanks admin very much for providing such a service.

Unfortunately we can't do anything but stay focus on the positive. Like Supergirl keep the faith and spread your enjoyment to the show. The rest follows or not, but the people looking for it will come (i so like "Field of Dreams" movie sorry).
But everything is a projection of personal feeling about how people think thing should be for there own approval. We are talking about fictional characters, they don't even exist. So hating is really about themself. But it work both ways, love as well. We can relate for the feeling of love that procure and we enjoy that.
So the first thing i remember is that actors are humans with feelings. No need to put them under any circumstances in harms way. I don't like all characters doesn't mean i'm going to hate the actor incarnate him or her, it serve nothing.
Two, when producers talk about "centric" episode, it can not be the main story, we still on the Supergirl show. That means second principal arc and i'm not shocked about it. Anyway, i'm glad i found that site and forum and i stick with it (also glad i'm not elsewhere for my good health)
Admin, internet is a living thing, so don't worry, you're doing a good job.

Hmm... I think it is time for my essay because brevity is something I don't know the meaning of.
Okay.

I don't follow Supergirl stuff on twitter (except for taking an occasional look at Chyler's twitter page.) So, I am not sure what's going on there. And, on tumblr, I only follow a select community; so I have not seen much hatred there either. I have heard of it a lot, some of it genuine criticism, and a lot of twitter stuff.

Note before I start: This is not an excuse for any venomous comment anywhere from anyone. There is no excuse for not being decent to other people no matter what their values while talking about a show (if it's a life/death situation or a matter of civic rights or you are being attacked, you may get a little emotional. but this is not about that.)

Disclaimer: The POVs expressed are mine own, but I have noticed a lot of criticism on tumblr, and some of it is derived from empathy. It may be just one POV among many.

If you're a Lena supporter, why do you hate Guardian's screen-time?

I think the comparison is between apples and beef here. Just like James in the Lena episode. All the ire directed at the Guardian arc is not about the increased screen time. It was not there much in the previous season, and James was the love interest!

It's about how sloppily the character has been written. And especially, the entitlement with which he treats the other characters. James thinks that he is owed support from Winn and Kara. He does not appreciate that Winn is risking his job and his life, and stealing from the government to ensure that he stays alive. He doesn't appreciate that Kara is only looking out for his safety.

And worse, in a show watched by a lot of people who are not superheroes but who contribute to society in a lot of different ways such as health workers, teachers, reporters and whatever, he considers the job he does as not being equal to the Supers. And since the writers seem to be on his side, it is all the more like, the show is telling people subtly that violently going at drug dealers and criminals is the only valuable and decent way you could contribute to society.

I mean, it defies logic. If I wanted to compete, I'd compete with someone from a position of my strength. Not of theirs. How can you compete with these folks in superheroics? Your strength is journalism, employ that.

And if it is not about competition as James says, but about making a difference. Again, I'd use my strength. And leave law enforcement to the law enforcement.

How's James with all his tech and Winn's support a hero and not Maggie who does whatever she does without any of that? Or Alex who only, as far as I have seen, has weapon, no additional armour or shield?

By the way, many James supporters do not see some of these aspects, or chose to ignore it because he was a rather decent character in Season 1, and because like any member of a discriminated against community, you tend to overlook deficiencies and look at strengths of a person of your own; and from where they are standing, he is willing to risk his life for others, he is loyal, and he tries to clean up crime. The entitlement issues they probably ignore as poor writing. Basically, they are looking at him with the season-1 lense, with the added good qualities of heroism.

Others may not be part of a minority community, as in a POC, but may empathise for the same reasons.

Lena's story on the other hand is written so as to appeal to anyone with any empathy. She is introduced as someone who wants to step away from the evil shadow of her step brother. Anyone who knows anything about Superman knows how tough a struggle that is with a name like Luthor.

Then, you get to know more about her, and you realise that her mother has been ill treating her since she was a baby. That possibly she lost her mother who had lover her at that same young age. How can anyone not feel for her at that?

And then, she shows a penchant for defying her mother who has been so emotionally abusive to her.

She has shown herself to be generous, at least to Kara (we don't see her anywhere else; but see Kara is a mere reporter, and she is a rich lady with a lot of assets; she is honest, but she is welcoming despite that.). And brave (she has risked her life for things that she believed in) and resourceful and intelligent (as when she took on those villains her mother sent using some device that I don't remember the name of; as well, as during the Medusa episode).

To top it all, her mother is emotionally manipulating her. Or, has been.

And then, there is the mystery about her motives. Because she is such a complex character, you want her to win this fight and emerge on the side of good.

It'd be very difficult for any viewer to not like this combo.

(All in all, I think Lena is the best character they have added to the show this season.)

Essentially I think the conflict in James' life and the arc looks very made-up and tacked on. While Lena's looks like something that can happen to anyone; natural and rich in life.

kiwi wrote something, but someone cut it (^_^)

evrafter, must be time for a group hug.

Jondix squeeze kiwi ... and gets an orange juice ... kidding, my hug was too hard :-*
evrafter where are you ?

Well, everybody is the result of their life experiences and values, so comparaison is always going to be part of the exchanges betwin people. But as an individual i'm aware that what i think today maybe not be the same tomorrow because of the masses of experiences i keep having. That's why even if its relevant to give an opinion about something i like or not, i don't find useful to compare situations and characters.

I read a lot of comments about the writing, but i'm one who think that there are a lot of layers between what is in the mind of the writer and what's delivered.
The actors have a part to do with it (and that is probably why i like Melissa Benoist interpretation of Kara so much and maybe someone else could have a total different effect on ma vision of the show).
You can say one ligne of dialog in many differents ways an it's not going to say the same thing. You can said it the same way everytime and not hear the same thing either. Everything is subjectif and very personal in that departement for me.
At that you can add the directors have also a big part to play etc...

Anyway the advice for getting back to a comunity is to enjoy what you like and not focus your energy towards what you don't like. (i hope i speak english by the way!)

Jondix squeeze kiwi ... and gets an orange juice ... kidding, my hug was too hard :-*
evrafter where are you ?

Over here *waves and jumps up and down*

I have seen a great many comments here and elsewhere saying Mon El-Kara ship is great because Mon-El's and Kara's (or Chris' and Melissa's) chemistry is great.

That is a pretty good reason for falling for someone. a. the on-screen chemistry is great. b. he is funny.

Think of it from the POV of a Kara-James shipper.

She dropped a perfectly great guy for someone who is a jerk and who is also in this culture, the epitome of white privilege. (As I said before, she didn't stay firm on that whole focusing on her career bit for long.)

If you don't see yourself represented in a leading way all that much, and if you see yourself being powerless in a lot of situations and being discriminated against just because of your colour, and you see the same thing enacted on screen. (or even a nerd, in the case, of Winn).

It's a story and story has effects on people. In real-life, you could say you fall for whom you will, but in stories, what you show is a choice from the show-runners. In real-life, you could say that Kara could not hold to her promise to explore her career and being single further, that you could have both at the same time, but in the story, the message you are saying is that Kara cannot be happy being single.

See how lonely she was before she confessed her liking for Mon El. It is not because her friends were abandoning for their own things (which would have been a great reason that they could have explored), it was because she had no romance in her life. Even her missing Alex is because, Alex says, she is trying not to focus on Mon El. Owing to her abandonment issues. Not because she misses her sister who has been with her from the day she landed on earth and was now spending all her free time with her new love, but because she has feelings for Mon El, which she is trying to ignore. Not because her sister missed her earth birthday, the day which would have officially marked that she has spent more time with Danvers and on Earth than with her own parents and her planet, (13 as opposed to 12).

Besides, you can't have it both ways. When people point out the abusive and rather harmful messages embedded in the show, you can't say "Oh! This is just a TV show and fictional characters; people, should not bother so much" (to put it gently) and then, when you point out how the story doesn't work because messaging is weird that "But, this is how it happens in real life. People may make resolutions but fail them all the time."

I am not attacking Kara-Mon El ships here. I am just listing out the POVs. Though, as far as Mon El is concerned most of it match (except, I used to like him and I like Chris Wood).

Besides, there is chemistry.

Speaking of that.

Kara-Lena shippers and how they hate Mon El so much.

Think of it from their perspective:

If Lena was a guy, and he had the same chemistry with Kara--basically, what is going on with Mon El (the actors, I mean)--the show would have gone for that relationship. Like Monica and Chandler.

Instead, just because Lena is a woman the show-runners wouldn't. And a lot of folks' attitude to Kara-Lena shippers is at best "Oh, those poor delusional folks..." and at worst "Why do they want more? Don't they have a gay character already? This is a straight show." May be said a bit more politely.

The above appears very condescending to gay folks. It is like they are being told: "Hey! We gave you one character! Be happy with it. Just how demanding are you?". The message is: This is a world of straight people, made for straight folks, and any scraps they get, the gay people should be grateful for it."

Or... "Why don't they just make shows for themselves, then?"

If, the show-runners could make a gay Supergirl and have the show survive then that would be a miracle. More so than POC although, I think it works quite to a great extent there too. We would have seen a proliferation of minority-based shows if those were really a lucrative option.

[Basically, this is the story of every minority people who want to see themselves in the stories they consume. It's their powerlessness. Any right they have, any happiness they could get, can be taken away at the whim of the majority. And the powerful, some of them, think that the little bit of representation they get is just enough or some times too much. An implied, "Take it where we can't see it." Basically, they (we, really, I am gay, POC, woman, and yeah most of the time aromantic ) have to fight for stuff which a lot of people get without asking. And even after the fighting, what they have is fragile and can be taken away so very easily.]

When you get comments like that directed at you, the dislike you feel for a Kara-Mon El ship is quite understandable. Even if you know, quite positively, that Kara-Lena ship is never going to happen in Canon. Even if you know that Alex is a secondary character and Maggie a tertiary character, so Alex-Maggie is never going to get much screen time when compared to the cis-het ship. Even if you know that, may be, just may be, Mehcad Brooks had more chemistry with Kara as a friend than as a romantic interest. Although, in James' case, it may be possible that folks are still hopeful of a potential romance there. I don't know.

As for the people who employ bullying in twitter and elsewhere, well, they are, as Everafr said possibly kids. Hopefully. If not. Well, hope they get better, but, I won't get into a relationship with them, if they promise to do better based just on that promise. ;-)

And none of this is a whole lot of how the group in which I fall feel. Not to mention I myself feel.