The State of the Supergirl Fandom

I hope whoever I responded to saw my post before it got deleted (the username was unfamiliar and I can't remember who it was. Bill something?). If they want to continue the discussion, they're more than welcome to do it here. But do NOT call me delusional.

I know that entering this forum post, we are already coming in hot from some other heated conversations that needed to be moderated before. Admittedly, I am spending so much time preparing for SDCC, I haven't moderated as much as I needed to in the last 12 hours. So for that I apologize.

As much as you are all able, I would like to ask that you all try and come in to this thread with a clear head and reset your emotions. I know this isn't easy but I would like to see if we can have a civil discourse on this very difficult topic

Because that fandom is spouting FACT, when comparing a FICTIONAL character to an abusive, misogynistic boyfriend.....they are calling it fact. There are those of us who think that is ridiculous. I have worked with abused women, I know what that abuse sounds like, feels like, tastes like......I had a gun pulled on me by the husband when picking up a woman who was being abused, and I was stupid and did not follow protocol ..... I KNOW THE FACTS........and it is a complete disrespect of what these women who are married or dating who ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH IT... to call this relationship toxic and abusive. It is filled with ignorance and total lack of understanding and it is filled with people that are at this moment in a frenzied, angry, mob mentality against a young man who is simply doing his job, and you can say it is a small group within that fandom and I call BS on that...it is the central thinking and focus of this fandom, and it is the FANDOM that is toxic and abusive to the point of probably screwing up what could be a fun time with this group of actors at SDCC....not because these frenzied people will be there to boo, but because of the fact that the show runners and PTB have to make changes this close to SDCC, just in case to keep their actors safe. TO KEEP THEIR ACTORS SAFE....do you get that?

So you can keep on, bloviating on this scene and that scene trying to make a case that is just not there....but it is a waste of time. Because there is not a case to make. You can try and sit upon a righteous and mighty cause and think you are making things better on this TV series, but you are not....and this fandom is not....you are perpetuating the VERY THING YOU RISE AGAINST.

I would like more than anything to not equate you with this fandom, but as long as you agree with them, as long as you try and validate what they do, you are with that fandom, and I have absolutely no respect for people that take these things, something that is supposed to be fun, and totally turn it into something that it never was. It is disrespectful to these actors that believe in what they are doing, the writers that believe in what they are writing, and fans that believe in what they are applauding.

It blows my mind that you can even be a part of a website like this....if you feel so strongly that this series is applauding abuse and slavery, how in the hell can you be a part of a fansite that totally hypes the very series that promotes the things that you hate.

I've had it with trying to be polite, and understanding, and give you guys your day..........but that time has ended.

That is everything on the table from me....no need for me to repeat it anymore in the discussion.

I will say this, no where do I say, or have said that other opinions are not allowed. That is not my call, nor do I believe that any should be deleted. This is a combination of what I have seen and heard in my experience with all of this. And as I stated on the other thread....all of the ships annoy me....and most have been muted by me on Twitter....but this faction has a mob mentality now, and it is becoming an issue for the cast at places like SDCC. So, that combined with the unbelievable disregard for true victims of abuse is where my post comes from. I'm not angry, I am amazed at this entire situation...that has gone after the host of the SDCC panel, just yesterday went after Kevin Smith one of the directors (who to be honest, i still think is confused at why they went after him). Sterling Gates was mobbed on Twitter along with others...this kind of stuff has to stop. It is not getting the issue that this faction says is a problem anywhere. It is getting them blocked by the actors, and is keeping any kind of dialogue from happening between this group and the powers that be. What it is doing, is ruining a series for the fans that have loved it from its beginnings and still loves it today....because they will not be able to have the time with the actors that they have had in the past.

I saw on twitter today, some of the coolest fans interacting with Floriana and Chyler, and they loved it. That was so good to see, and takes me back to what we had with these actors and writers before...my hope would be that when Chris is filming or Melissa, the two of them together etc...that the fans will be able to do that as well. I hope that the little girls that want to have their special time with Melissa won't have to listen to the rantings of a crazed group of people. My hope is that SDCC goes off without a hitch, and that the fans that are there just for the fun and enjoyment of it get what they dreamed of....and I hope it is a time that the actors can spend time with the fans that love them. My hope is that the anonymity of social media is what has increased the negative....and once face to face with these fine actors and show runners, that negative will be quieted. That is my hope...

If the other 2 fandoms are doing what I just described above, please, show me examples...do they fight incessantly with the other fandoms? Good grief yes, now that I HAVE SEEN FAR TO MANY TIMES. That is not what I'm talking about.....those fandoms can go off and fight all they want, I can mute them and move on. But the harassment of the actors, directors, writers and their families....needs to stop now.

Kelly, not all abuse looks the same. I have provided a link to a tweet that I believe may be helpful if you are so inclined to listen. That being said, you may well dismiss the evidence, but I think it's worth a try.

Kelly, not all abuse looks the same. I have provided a link to a tweet that I believe may be helpful if you are so inclined to listen. That being said, you may well dismiss the evidence, but I think it's worth a try.

I have watched, rewatched....and rewatched again, this series. I have gone through extensive training in date abuse, spousal abuse, etc....

If someone was abused, and what they saw from this series bothered them.....they truly need more counseling....and I am being totally serious about that...more counseling is needed.

This in response to @Kelly saying I was playing the victim (in the other forum post)

I am and would never play a victim. I didn't think you were telling me not to be on this site. I was merely pointing out that my opinion is just as right or wrong as yours. Because no opinion is right or wrong.

Thank you admin for starting this thread. I was actually thinking of leaving this website for some place less hostile but I believe I will stick around. After all my opinion (on a fictional show with fictional characters) is just as important as everyone elses.

Your opinion has as much right to be stated as mine and is just as important.....but that does not make it correct.

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

Littlestar, don't bother trying to reason with Kelly. These people can be confronted with all the evidence in the world and they'll still turn a blind eye because he's a hot white man. Let it go.

I know that entering this forum post, we are already coming in hot from some other heated conversations that needed to be moderated before. Admittedly, I am spending so much time preparing for SDCC, I haven't moderated as much as I needed to in the last 12 hours. So for that I apologize.

As much as you are all able, I would like to ask that you all try and come in to this thread with a clear head and reset your emotions. I know this isn't easy but I would like to see if we can have a civil discourse on this very difficult topic

What I stated in the prior thread was exactly my feelings on this subject. Maybe it came off harsh, but I will not apologize for that, because it comes from what I have encountered and there is nothing emotional, angry or dramatized....it is exactly what I have seen. I think that for a long time there was a passive/aggressive nature to this situation....and I believe that is the reason it has been allowed to grow as much as it has....the fans that are not a part of an of these fandoms have stayed quiet...that time has passed. If there is a group of people, harassing a person, and 5 of them are heavily in the harassment and the other few are just standing by watching, and validate and justify the harassment either by saying its ok, or pointing their fingers other directions....they are still a part of the harassment in my humble opinion. What I stated was simply what I have seen.

Kelly, not all abuse looks the same. I have provided a link to a tweet that I believe may be helpful if you are so inclined to listen. That being said, you may well dismiss the evidence, but I think it's worth a try.

BTW, I have seen that tweet...

And nothing I have seen in this series even touches the area of abuse either in a dating relationship, friendship, or marriage....and to think that it does...

1. disrespects these actors who would never stand for that...
2. disrespects these writers who take what they do far to seriously for that...
3. disrespects fans that would stand up strong against something like that if it were in fact actually a reality on the series.

Just to let you know where I stand on it.

I don't think the point of this thread is to change people's opinions. Those are formed too powerfully by their own experiences.

It was my hope that we could share opinions and agree to disagree. Or just I don't know shake hands and part ways as friends.

Listen I don't know what the right answer is but until I am blue in the face, I just hope we can find peace in this.

Quick question for Kelly: who are the 'true victims of abuse'? Are you insinuating that those select few who have spoken against the karamel relationship aren't true abuse survivors? Or am I misunderstanding you?

I have the utmost faith that SDCC will go off without a hitch. The likelihood of any radical shippers being there is slim to none. We've all seen how terrible some of the SC shippers are but have some of you not experienced the things the rest of the fandom have said and done? Have you not seen the things said about Melissa's sisters just because the woman was interacting with SC shippers? What about all the negativity directed at Katie? Thank goodness the woman has no social media. How about the obsessive nature of the karamel fandom surrounding Chris and his relationship with Melissa? Poor David had to disable his comments on his last instagram post because fans are constantly harassing him about Chris; he's even commented on it. We've even had karamel shippers asking the SDCC panel moderator to ask about Chris/Melissa's relationship..I find that completely invasive, do you guys not? Some of Chris's fans have even gone after Melissa herself.

I do try to mute and block nasty fans online. But I cannot just turn a blind eye to some of the stuff being said out there. The amount of hate at the LGBT community is astounding, and it's all because of a non-canon ship! But because this isn't aimed at the people behind the show it seems to be swept to the side as if it means nothing. The hate coming from the KM fandom may not always be directed at the cast and crew but it is directed at real life people. There is so much hate/bigotry coming out of that fandom but we somehow overlook it and focus our attention to the other half.

Would any of the cast be proud of their respective fandoms? Hell no! Why would they? We have fans going after them and their families, fans being blatantly homophobic/racist and even fans throwing out death threats to other fans.

We saw that post with some of the stuff fans have said/tweeted and here's another source showcasing the rest of the toxicity of this fandom.

Littlestar, don't bother trying to reason with Kelly. These people can be confronted with all the evidence in the world and they'll still turn a blind eye because he's a hot white man. Let it go.

I agree Littlestar. She's not going to listen so don't waste your breath or your typing in this case. She is apparently the expert on abuse and no one else knows anything.

All people are talking about SC hostility but no ones talks about all the Karamels that have sent murder gifs to people and called them f'in dykes. Guess its okay. I just don't like the generalization of saying that all SC are bad. Like the admin said we should never generalize a whole group.

Its not ok for them to do that to other people, you are correct. I totally agree...
When generalizing all SC, let me clarify...not 100%, not 95%, not 90%...not sure that I could even put a % on it. I actually converse daily with a few SC peeps...and enjoy it. But, I can truthfully say they are the far minority. As far as fights between SC vs. KM etc....in those cases, each can directly confront each other. These actors, writers, etc....can't do that. They can block them, and they have begun to do that...but they can't come out of the gate slamming it down....they just can't. So in fairness to them, it is not on equal ground, whereas a KM vs. SC is....that is just the nature of this situation.

As far as "my opinion" on the subject of whether this is abuse or not......honestly not a big deal, and don't take it personally......that isn't really where I'm coming from.

The reality of all of this to me is this....

1. It isn't about right or wrong here for me...you feel its abuse...ok.
2. What happens on the series this next season, is already underway, and was planned months ago and as they go along they will tweek it. I do not believe the writers believe what they were writing was an abusive relationship anymore than I do, so I don't for see any changes in it other than, Mon-El is elsewhere....the question is......who will he return as? that will be answered this next season. All of this gnashing of teeth, heads to the brick wall, crying and screaming on twitter and tumblr...won't change that. Because .... again, the writers do not believe what they wrote is an abusive relationship. That is pretty simple...
3. So for me, whether you believe it to be abuse or not....not the problem for me, difference of opinions...happens all the time......BUT for SDCC, the question is will the actors, show runners, and fans be able to enjoy themselves and do what they went there to do....promote the show and enjoy their favs....
4. You justify the anger on Tumblr and Twitter...ok...that is perfectly fine. Don't expect me to agree with it....but it is truly fine with me how you believe.....again, I'm talking about can the fans enjoy themselves at SDCC, can the actors and show runners do what they need to do, is there going to be a huge change in protocol because their is the possibility of major disruptions, will they be able to film in a way that they need to, and can they interact with fans in an enjoyable fun way....

Honestly...that is all I'm worried about at this time. I just want to enjoy season 3 next year with the actors and writers like we did in Season 1 without rude people disrupting it. Its just not much more of an issue to me than that. I have to say, Kevin Smith could not have described it any better in his feelings about what was being thrown at him yesterday....his feelings are exactly mine. *big eyes*, hands in the air, what the heck are you talking about?" That has been my thought process from the beginning....until it got to the point that the harassment was truly over the top.

if it is a huge issue for you, and you believe that it is abuse, he's a horrible slave owner, and a misogynist and has shown absolutely no growth as a young man...so be it. Write them letters, make videos and send it to them. Let them know EXACTLY how you feel. That is definitely your right.

Littlestar, don't bother trying to reason with Kelly. These people can be confronted with all the evidence in the world and they'll still turn a blind eye because he's a hot white man. Let it go.

That is hysterical...but honestly, thank you for being honest with how you feel about. Seriously...

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

Oh and on the note of the Kevin Smith twitter incident from yesterday, the man went out of his way and responded to a hateful tweet. He was not tagged in the original tweet by the op, so how he found the tweet...who knows. The response he got from angry twitter fans yesterday is all on him. I'm not sure what he expected to happen by responding to hate tweets; he literally put himself in that ridiculous situation.

That being said, I'm not advocating for those initial disgusting tweets, but I am saying that he should have never given them the attention they clearly seek.

Littlestar, don't bother trying to reason with Kelly. These people can be confronted with all the evidence in the world and they'll still turn a blind eye because he's a hot white man. Let it go.

That is hysterical...but honestly, thank you for being honest with how you feel about it. Seriously... Keep it coming....

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

So what you just said is that people who are reminded of their abuse need counseling so that they don't think it's abuse. Is that right?

Several abuse victims have said that he reminds them of their abuser. You think they're all delusional?

I would not know if that were true or not for them, I don't know them personally as I stated before, if they saw that as abusive, more counseling may be needed for them...again, I don't know their situation i don't know if they have gone through any kind of counseling...they might need to watch what they are watching on TV if that bothered them that much.........I can only go by what I have experienced myself in my internships, and the people I have dealt with through that....

So what you just said is that people who are reminded of their abuse need counseling so that they don't think it's abuse. Is that right?

If what they saw on this series brought back memories of their abuse from something as innocent as this relationship was...yes, they may need some more help, or counseling.

Both sides, all sides, everyone one would seem to be behaving in a way that passionately defends their side. That seems like human nature. But if I had to sum it up this is what I see:

There is a side that feels the character of Mon-El is bad. Bad for Kara, bad influence, and they have gathered evidence to support their argument. I can't argue that. Makes sense. You can question the motives behind thoses determinations. Is it to remove him as an obstacle so Kara can have another love interest? Possibly. There are all sorts of motives. None is wrong.

On the other hand there is a group that likes Mon-El and believes that because his character is romantically tied to Kara they have a righteous power to protect him against all others. No one can touch him. James, Lena, Cat or whomever.

Now, both sides have made errors in my opinion. And let me be clear, not all are doing it, it's just some bad apples on the sides.

Here's where I get concerned, it's affecting the actors, showrunners, and crew. And not affecting them in terms of positive change. More like the whole fandom is being painted as bad apples and the fans' access to the actors and crew is being diminished.

Standing up for what you believe in is an important step in being American I believe, however there are ways of doing it right and doing it wrong.

Supergirl in the end is a product, developed by a business and designed to sell advertisements. That's it. It isn't going to cure cancer, it isn't going to change politics, and it isn't going to "fix" the country (if you feel that it needs fixing).

The truth is, Supergirl is left leaning because a market study showed that it wouldn't hurt the overall numbers. Furthermore arguments about "queer-bating" and what not are again all calculated and measured. There isn't a single decision made on any TV show that isn't taking into account the bottom line and that is $$$.

TV shows only affect social change because the advertising companies are willing to buy the ad spots. When Supergirl came to the CW it's ad costs went up by a huge percentage.

All the letter writing, campaigning and booing at conventions is going to do is push access to the celebrities further away. Even a PR nightmare like the 100 had with the Clexa thing ended up going nowhere because the numbers remained.

I think at this point I am digressing. What I really want more than all of this is to have the polite and well reasoned discourse again that this site is known for. I want us all to remember that we are fans of a show and we don't need to agree on everything but we can still be fans together.