The State of the Supergirl Fandom

It's not a state of the fandom post; more, what I have learnt from this fandom post. Read on if you will.
So. I had prepared something for this forum, and then, decided against posting it because I felt it would come off as corny. Or cheesy?
But, now, I have decided that I should. Just to show appreciation. Even if it does come across as corny or cheesy.
I came into this forum (and Superherohype) last year after it was announced that Alex was going to be gay. I didn't like that development for personal reasons, but when I came over here and read the posts against it... well.. let us say... I reacted badly. And came in with guns blazing on why it is perfectly okay for Alex to be gay.
That has been my nearly first experience of interacting within a fandom; even interacting online (except for one or two comments here and there that nobody noticed).
Even now, my experience online is limited. I don't follow Supergirl on twitter, for example. And on tumblr, I follow very few people. So, yeah... what I say would seem weird.

But, so far, my personal experience online in this fandom has only led to great learning. It has expanded my thinking enough for me to even help in every day life. I have learnt that:

a. One aspect of a person does not define that person. There is no reason to judge them based on that even if you dislike that particular aspect. There may be many other aspects of them that you can like and even love. If I don't agree with them on that one thing, I can just point that out once, and then move on and focus on the things I like about them.

For example: This is not from the show; my parents are mildly homophobic; as in, they don't mind other people being gay or getting married or whatever, but they don't want me to be gay (and I am pretty sure they won't care all that much for gay representation). And, I am gay. But, I do still love them despite that. Because they are wonderful people who have taught me the best I know irrespective of that.
When, it comes to online, it is easy to lose sight of this, I think.
At least, I do it.... And then, I when i see more of these online people, I notice so many other great things about them.. And I try to focus on that. But, it is not always possible (we may only have an instant to form judgment). So, it is best to just ignore (or at least, not form judgments).

b. People experience the world differently. There as many world experiences (and if you put a Hindu spin on it; as many worlds) as there are people. One is not more important than the other.
Yes, there are some basic values that we all should work towards: More kindness and compassion, better working together, more inclusiveness, more freedom; peace!. But...even with those basic values in mind, people may see things differently. And that is okay.

c. What people like and dislike in a show (or in general) is a reflection of a sliver of their personality and experience. It is NOT a reflection of what they think about my personality, experience and likes and dislikes.

d. Shows, folks. people, all are complex. Real life is complex. You can't fit them into black and white, yes or no, bad and good (in a way that fits everyone, every time, at every place). (This appears to be a corollary of a).

None of this precludes discussions by the way. I think the way most folks in this thread have discussed things is wonderful! I have learnt a lot from that too.

Oh... and I am not exactly saying that I didn't know all this before. I did..mostly theoretically. It's quite another thing to actually experience it.
(And this is not a lecture on you all: I am always worried about how I saw come across online, so I try and insert that every time. If you disagree with all or most of it, that is fine. And that doesn't change what I think. Or, have learnt. )

And I am happy that I took that step last year... and I am happy to be here.

Bows to you all!

I am also genuinely sorry for what you face. I hope for the day you are surrounded by the respect you deserve. In response to that just then, my take is, if the character really isn't asian, then he said nothing wrong really.

Thank you, I hope the same for you (and for any other members on this site who experience prejudices in their day to day lives).

I agree, what he said isn't wrong. But what he said isn't the issue, it's the manner in which he said it that is the issue (I'm sure there are some shippers who are pissed about what he said but shippers are a whole other topic). LGBT viewers don't care about what he said, we know they're just friends (and there's nothing wrong with that); we take issue with the mockery he made of a wlw fanon ship, that's it.

The amount of hate he's getting is ridiculous at this point The man has apologized twice now, with the second apology being quite heartfelt. I've forgiven him. Many have. People do dumb stuff all the time, but they learn from their mistakes and move on as Jeremy seems to have.

Casting my support for the cast. ALL the cast.

Please allow me pose these questions to the Supercorp fans here:

1) Do you condone booing any of the Supergirl cast/crew at screenings/panels?
2) Have you seen a concerted/orchestrated plan to undermine Katie (or the Lena character) at conventions?
3) Have you witnessed any death threats against Katie for simply portraying a character on a TV show?

My sincere hope is that you've answered negative to all of the above because I would like to believe that none of you are part of that toxic portion of your fandom. But with that said, all of the above have been directed at the actor Chris Wood and the character Mon-El. Which is why I believe there's now a backlash against that vile element of Supercorp. I'm not saying there are no bad elements in Karamel (no fandom is perfect after all) but you can surely see the concern towards this specific fandom because the attacks have been steadily escalating.

Somebody mentioned (I believe it was littlestar?) that they were called out by the larger collective and that it won't happen again. While I applaud the efforts to reign them in, unfortunately it HAS already happened (just yesterday) and will continue to happen unless something is done by the larger Supercorp fandom, and them alone (since any outside rebuke will be construed as an attack against them). In whatever way plausible to shut down their toxic rhetoric (call them out, shame them, block them, etc.).

If not, they will continue to reflect poorly on the decent Supercorp fans unfortunate enough to be lumped with these hooligans. And all the name-dropping, name-calling of the Mon-El character by the Supercorp fans in general only serve to fan the flames of hate further. I've seen some of you make low-key, subtle jabs here in the forums and I implore you to refrain from doing this for the benefit of those who like Mon-El. You would likewise not appreciate it if sarcastic digs were aimed at your favorites.

It's ok to like what you like. You do you. The world would be so boring if everyone liked the same things. But attacking the cast/crew and other fans for liking something you don't agree with... that's unacceptable.

The despicable amount of hate being generated by that toxic faction is genuinely affecting people's lives as well as our enjoyment of the show. TV is supposed to be entertaining. When it comes to a point where the hate for a character/storyline is overwhelming and consuming you and you no longer enjoy it, I hope one finds the sense to step away and disengage. It must be exhausting to harbor such hatred and spew toxicity 24/7.

The point of Supergirl, the very show they're espousing to be a fan of, is to spread positivity. Yet they're doing the exact opposite. Positivity and respect moving forward is key. I like what I like, I respect what you like, and you do the same for me.

I like this, I like it a lot because it's a good evaluation of what makes rhetoric dangerous.

I, however, want to be as down the middle as possible.

Have Karamel shippers called out Sanvers supporters as supporting a non-important relationship?

Have Karamel shippers actively dismissed the imbalance of LGBT characters on tv because Mon-El is more socially acceptable

Have Karamel shippers called Lena and Kara not possible because Lena would never be lesbian?

Before we jump to answer these questions. Let me just say, I want to try and channel both or all sides of the fandom. These may or may not be my personal opinions but that shouldn't matter. What I like about where this thread is going is that we are illustrating each others' arguments and we are hearing them. We don't have to agree with them but hearing them, acknowledgeling them is the best step to saying "I hear your point and I don't agree but I don't dismiss you either"

Everyone, this is hard, this is life. These are hard level topics and people have their life dedicated to some of these topics. I appreciate the course we are starting to take. We are listening. We are presenting sides. And we are comprehending. I am not asking everyone to agree, but compassion, understanding and accepting that an opinion against yours is not an attack against you is pretty priceless. Thank you!

Although I do not use or subscribe to Twitter or really follow all of the "ship" brouhahas currently going on, what it really implies to me is that within the last year, due to whatever reason (be it social, political or otherwise), a vocal, anti-social minority has taken control of public discourse and attempted to railroad any constructive debate. It is a sign of collective mental illness. Plain and simple.

Sadly, this is a reflection of our modern society in which he / she who screams loudest is the one whose (ill-informed, mean-spirited, patently false or downright kooky) ruminations or threats hold sway. Given this, is there really any wonder why more and more actors cancel or skip certain conventions altogether? Until certain segments of society get their acts together and behave, this degrading (and thanks to the Twitterverse, often anonymous) vitriol will continue to be front and centre.

As a small word of advice, for whatever it is worth to our board members, is to skip the run-of-the-mill Twitter Fan Groups (stalkers, actually) and focus on the more positive and like-minded fan communities as it relates to the show - yes, they are fewer and farther between. It'll save you the nagging migraines, needless stress and the need to reach for antacids on a routine basis.

You have several groups within this fandom...

Fans like myself, who are just tired of the shipping all together, who would like for Kara to be single, but by no means want Mon-el off the show, and even if they are still together, that is fine....just less screen time on their lovey dovey stuff so to speak, and we would like less of that all the way around. There are a lot of us, we just don't speak out all that much, we enjoy the show and go about our business. I would venture to say that the majority on this site and the one I work on, along with many others fall into this category. They love Supergirl, they want more Supergirl, they want more Kara, they want more of the sister time that we saw in the 1st season....but as far as the abuse accusations, the toxic relationship accusation....we kind of shake our heads at that, and just don't see it. If others saw that, ok....everyone takes from a series what they will.....

You have fans that want #Karamel married....probably not going to happen, certainly would bet on it not happening, but in a relationship? sure...

#Supercorp (in its beginnings) had the desire for Kara to be gay and in a relationship with Lena, it shows in their fanfic, their twitter posts, tumblr blogs, photoshops, and artwork...to say that isn't at their core is just wrong. Once it was clear that that is not going to happen, they melded with those that have found the writing to be abusive, and toxic when it comes to Mon-el and they are loud, these two groups have melded into one for all practical purposes on twitter and tumblr.

Then you have those that agree with the abusive and toxic dialogue but do not want to be associated with the group above, they are not as vocal, they are not as harassing and they actually don't like what is happening within that group even though they may agree with some aspects of their agenda....I use the word agenda, because there is an organized effort, with specific talking points that are being driven on a constant basis..... agenda --
a list, plan, outline, or the like, of things to be done, matters to be acted or voted upon, etc.:
So, this group that agrees with the "lists" the "outline" do not agree with the plan of action in how these things are being acted upon. I totally understand that....please understand, those of us that like what we have seen in Season 2 with some things to be built upon or tweeked don't like being lumped into what some are calling "that toxic Supergirl fandom" so I totally understand where you are coming from.

As far as #Sanvers and #Karamel? Yes, they have their extremists (for lack of a better word) as well.....but they do not have what would be called an agenda from the above definition. Why? because they don't need an agenda, what they are wanting is happening....their ships are canon at this point, there is no need for an organized effort to get their desires across to the PTB. They fight with #Supercorp people in their defense of their ship, in defense of themselves for the most part.....#Sanvers as well, and you have some within the #Sanvers ship that agree with that very first group of #Supercorp people I described above.

As far as #Karolsen, I might have gotten that wrong in the spelling.....that ship sailed, and it is not coming back. That was made very clear by the writers at the beginning of the 2nd season when they were asked point blank what happened. They said that at the end of Season 1 it was what they wanted, but as they began to see it come to light in their discussions, it just wasn't there for them. Whether it was lack of chemistry between the actors, lack of desire on the part of the writers to try and force it to see if it would work, whatever their reasons, they said that it just did not work.

As far as that first group of #Supercorp people, that story line is not going to come to light...no matter how much they scream about it. It's just not going to happen. I do however think that if given the time, and correct direction from the director, that friendship could be very special. YES, it has to have bumps along the way, if it didn't it would be boring....

It is very obvious that these writers are committed to #Sanvers, it is just how much time they have with Floriana...I hope a lot more than what we are being led to believe...

As far as #Karamel, I know the writers really like the chemistry between the two, as do the directors that have worked with them....BUT, once we see who Mon-el becomes, if he becomes Valor, will they continue in a relationship, will they not.....that is just something we have to wait and see. But one thing is clear, Chris is coming back as a strong part of the story.....in what capacity remains to be seen.

As far as "will they, will they not" make a statement in regards to the topics of abuse, and what some are saying was a toxic relationship between Kara and Mon-el....we may have that answer at Comic-con.....I do not believe the writers, or the actors, or the PTB believe what they wrote, created, and put up on the screen was any of those things, but they may very well speak to some of the concerns. If they do, I have a feeling it will be along the lines of what I just stated, if they don't say anything.....that is an answer in itself....and it probably goes back to again, what I stated above. That is just my gut feeling, that is something we will just have to wait and see......but we can go back and forth here, and we can call each other whatever ship we want to, but I believe people here have their opinions, and no matter how many times we repeat our thoughts on the subject....no one's mind is going to be changed....it becomes "beating a dead horse"

As for myself however, one of the reasons I went so strongly in the other thread was because it was the elephant in the room, and the passive aggressive debate was getting no where. I am one that likes everything out on the table for all to see.

My final thoughts on all of these "ships" is this....... you can make an omelette using 30 eggs, 29 of them can be the very best quality eggs on the market, but if #30 is rotten....that omelette is rotten and that 1 egg, ruins the omelette. I think that is what "ships" are doing to a fantastic series.

not only is this horse dead, but we've made burgers and put ketchup on this sucker at this point.

Excuse us for speaking out about an incident that deeply, deeply hurt the LGBT section of the fandom. Jeremy has and he seems genuinely sorry, and I for one accept that apology. That doesn't change the fact that A) It happened, B) It echoes what several of the more nasty fans have said to us, and C) Melissa has not apologized when she was the one who called Jeremy 'brave' for what he did.

Considering how they immediately got sent death threats, how is brave not a very apt prediction? Melissa was predicting that he would get abuse over this and lo and behold he immediately did. Why is it so hard to accept that with the type of hate the actors get it is completely reasonable for them to perceive that aspect of fandom as something scary? Why would you not be intimidated of people who send you death threats over fictional characters?

And no, the excuse that it is only because they insulted fans in real life does not cut it, because 1.) death threats are never okay, your feelings don't mean that you have the right to threaten people and 2.) Rahul was attacked like that when he hadn't done ANYTHING except play a role he was cast for and his episode hadn't even aired yet. It happened because people apparently thought he deserved to get hate for daring to get cast and accepting a job offer where his fictional character would touch another fictional character whose fictional sexuality those people happened to be invested in.

Yeah, mocking Kara/Lena also hurt the nice fans (and Jeremy has apologized), but what is this brave comment if not a commentary on those fans that are indeed scary obsessive and verbally violent over this particular couple? And who react absolutely with unreasonable hate over a completely legit decision. The show is absolutely within their right to give Lena a past boyfriend, Lena is their character. And it is completely within somebody's right to then take that role and get money for it.

The Kara/Lena fans don't want to admit to their fangroup having a huge problem with verbally abusive overly obsessive fans. And yes, other fangroups have that too and then hopefully they also have a negative reputation in their fandom. And maybe if Kara/Lena fans were gone then the Kara/Mon-El fans would do the majority of the abuse. But then the Kara/Mon-El fans would be what I would be complaining about. But right now, Kara/Lena fans make up the majority of the abuse.

It's not even comparable to the behavior by the Kara/Cat Grant shippers in season 1. I don't know why the Kara/Lena fans have so many much more mean spirited members, but that's the way it is. They are the ones who do the majority of the abuse in this particular fandom. The fact that other fans are also mean doesn't change that right now most of the aggressive fans in this fandom come out of this fan group. Those fans rightfully earned their negative reputation for being mean spirited, by being mean spirited and hateful towards the actors.

Maybe in a really weird, twisted way having Alex be gay somehow made the mean fans think if they are just mean enough to the writers they will get their couple. If so, then that's truly messed up. BECAUSE the show actually tries to do uplifting and loving representation in Alex, they in the minds of some people are suddenly fair game for abuse. When shows that are way more homophobic and never even have a gay couple or character get a free pass. What kind of destructive logic is that? Nobody is ever invited to be verbally abusive. There is no "that tv show was wearing a short skirt, so it had to expect to get that kind of reaction":

Considering a rally call. General mobilisation to a twitter crusade. All the sensible people here, do what we can, bury the SC comments with positivity and show the cast sense prevails, and they have no need to be forced into apology by people who hijacked their sexuality to use it as a weapon in what is in fact a fandom war.

If you will look at my avatar, that is exactly what is happening. That is just a part of that campaign.

I'm going to very cautiously dip my toe into this thread. I'm not on twitter only FB and have had to drop out of every group but this one and the shows official group because I just couldn't take the horrible things I was reading. I don't consider myself a shipper of any sort, because of this I won't use shipper names. I don't personally see abuse in Kara/Mon-El's relationship. They both acted childish at times but she gave as good as she got in thier arguments. She almost used Daxamite in a derogatory way several times. If you see abuse in thier arguments I won't try to convince you otherwise. I have never found success in trying to change someone's opinion over the internet, that's hard enough to do in person.

We need to change the perception of Supergirl fans from being the worst. If we don't do that we're going to see more negative effects on the show we all profess to love. Directors are going to decline the opportunity to work on the show after what happened to Kevin Smith. Writers are going to look for jobs on different shows to avoid being harassed. Actors are going to think twice about taking parts after what happened to Rahul Kohli. Katie could have decided she didn't want to be a regular after what happened with her brother and we should consider ourselves lucky she didn't.

I want to propose some rules of fandom that I hope all factions can agree on.
1) It's never ever ok to engage in or call for violence of any sort.
2) It's never ok to engage or involve a family member of anyone who works on the show.
3) Personal lives are off limits.
4) Recognize that actors have absolutely no say in the characters they play or the storyline. Harassment will not help your opinion be heard, it will do just the opposite and cause the actors to stop interacting with all fans.
5) Like the actors directors have no say in the storyline.
6) Writers have very little to do with the overall storyline and aren't allowed to change the season arcs.
7) Twitter and other social media sites are not the best place to express your opinions to the producers. If you disagree with a character or storyline, write an actual thoughtful letter to them or the network.

If you are a member of a particular group and see another member of that group violating the above rules you have a responsibility to stand up and let them know what they are doing is wrong. Let them know that thier opinion isn't inherently wrong, and if you do that you agree. But that you disagree with the manor they are expressing it and that you don't appreciate them giving your group a bad reputation as well as making your entire group seem "crazy".

The following was written by a good friend of mine, all credit goes to her.


I lost two Twitter friends yesterday. They both fell victim to a cancer spreading throughout social media, the cancer of the toxic fandom. It’s a vicious affliction that grows worse every day. I’ve seen it drive not only people like my friends, who enjoyed nothing more talking about their favorite shows but also writers, producers and even stars themselves from social media because of nasty and vitriolic posters. My friends found being around such actions were keeping them from having fun and being a part of a show’s online community and in one case drove one from social media altogether.

Make no mistake, I love television. I love talking about television and there is no greater place to do that these days than via social media, primarily Twitter. I have made friends all over the world on this instant medium. I longingly remember the days and was proud to be a part of a fandom of a certain show that banded together on Twitter, took on the Nielsen’s’, and earned our beloved show just one more season, and sat watching my timeline one night, tears in my eyes, as one of the stars of that show helped a young fan raise thousands of dollars for charity in a matter of hours.

While there are many great fandoms out there doing all sorts of wonderful things, sadly, I fear those type of fandom days are endangered by the toxicity prevalent in fandoms of many shows today. Just what makes a toxic fandom? Many things. For one, more and more people are posting without thinking of the consequences of their words. Now more than ever we should pause and look at what we’ve written before hitting send.

Today, there is rarely just a single group of fans any more, talking about their favorite show, debating what they liked and didn’t like with civil discourse. Now days a show’s fans are likely to be divided into warring factions fighting for dominance – this group hates one character, that group hates another, this character or actor’s not getting enough or too much screen time, and the poor writers, actors and producers get caught in the middle of the battles marked with vicious attacks, name calling, and scathing negativity.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being passionate about a show you love, however there is a difference between being passionate and crossing a line into toxicity. More and more are posting without thinking of the consequences of their words, when now more than ever we should pause and look at what we’ve written before hitting send.

It’s fine to tell a writer/producer or show runner you don’t like or care for a storyline or a certain character, what’s toxic is constantly bombarding them with hate filled tweets like, “kill this character” or “I hate this character” EVERY time they’re on line or anytime that character is mentioned in an article about the show. That goes way beyond overkill. Often posts like these cross the line from voicing displeasure to become whining, teeth-gnashing rants that sadly, at times, devolve into nasty bullying, name-calling or personal attacks.

Unfortunately, one of the fallacies of social media is its immediacy, and when a star or executive doesn’t respond to one of thousands of tweets or messages they likely receive daily in a timely fashion or with the answer the fan wants to hear, they’re often greeted with anger or vitriol. That fan may choose to respond like a petulant child because they believe they are entitled to a response. Just because someone is on Twitter does not mean you are entitled to a response or to attack or insult them just because they don’t respond to you. Remember, they don’t have to be there at all, they’re there because they choose to be, often taking the time after a long hard day on set or doing promotion for their show, or taking time away from their families to talk to fans. When they do choose to respond, they deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect.

The writers, producers, directors, and actors on any show on television work extremely long, difficult hours to bring episodes to our television or computer screens. And no matter how long, or how hard they work to bring us the best possible episodes of our favorite shows they will not please everyone with every episode. Many fans often forget that people associated with these shows take time out of their very busy lives, away from their families to come onto social media to talk to them, because like anyone, they enjoy hearing if they’ve done a good job or not.

Toxic fan actions aren’t just limited to those directly involved with a show, I’ve seen it directed at the entertainment media that covers those shows. I’ve had colleagues threatened, and insulted; message board comments filled with hate filled rants and more because they wrote something that dared to be opposite of what that fan may think. This is toxic.

Suddenly, it’s wrong to have an opinion different from a group who believe they are right beyond all discussion. Simply put, they’re right, you’re wrong all the time, because you don’t agree with them or believe as they do. And if you do disagree with them, and god forbid you post it anywhere, that’s when the most toxic of a group will band together with personal attacks and name calling.

Having been on the receiving end of attacks like this on more than one occasion, I completely understand why so many stars, writers and producers are disappearing from social media. Given the scale of the attacks I endured I can’t imagine what they must see every day.

I realize that by writing this I am opening myself up to more attacks. The reality is, that by writing this I hope to shine a light on the cancer of the toxic fandom, groups that I have watched tear apart great fandoms for many shows in recent years.

I know there are many great fans and great fandoms out there. It’s time to cut this cancer from social media and take back fandoms ripped to pieces by a toxic fandom. It’s time to #TakeBackOurFandom.

Please allow me pose these questions to the Supercorp fans here:

1) Do you condone booing any of the Supergirl cast/crew at screenings/panels?
2) Have you seen a concerted/orchestrated plan to undermine Katie (or the Lena character) at conventions?
3) Have you witnessed any death threats against Katie for simply portraying a character on a TV show?

My sincere hope is that you've answered negative to all of the above because I would like to believe that none of you are part of that toxic portion of your fandom. But with that said, all of the above have been directed at the actor Chris Wood and the character Mon-El. Which is why I believe there's now a backlash against that vile element of Supercorp. I'm not saying there are no bad elements in Karamel (no fandom is perfect after all) but you can surely see the concern towards this specific fandom because the attacks have been steadily escalating.

Somebody mentioned (I believe it was littlestar?) that they were called out by the larger collective and that it won't happen again. While I applaud the efforts to reign them in, unfortunately it HAS already happened (just yesterday) and will continue to happen unless something is done by the larger Supercorp fandom, and them alone (since any outside rebuke will be construed as an attack against them). In whatever way plausible to shut down their toxic rhetoric (call them out, shame them, block them, etc.).

If not, they will continue to reflect poorly on the decent Supercorp fans unfortunate enough to be lumped with these hooligans. And all the name-dropping, name-calling of the Mon-El character by the Supercorp fans in general only serve to fan the flames of hate further. I've seen some of you make low-key, subtle jabs here in the forums and I implore you to refrain from doing this for the benefit of those who like Mon-El. You would likewise not appreciate it if sarcastic digs were aimed at your favorites.

It's ok to like what you like. You do you. The world would be so boring if everyone liked the same things. But attacking the cast/crew and other fans for liking something you don't agree with... that's unacceptable.

The despicable amount of hate being generated by that toxic faction is genuinely affecting people's lives as well as our enjoyment of the show. TV is supposed to be entertaining. When it comes to a point where the hate for a character/storyline is overwhelming and consuming you and you no longer enjoy it, I hope one finds the sense to step away and disengage. It must be exhausting to harbor such hatred and spew toxicity 24/7.

The point of Supergirl, the very show they're espousing to be a fan of, is to spread positivity. Yet they're doing the exact opposite. Positivity and respect moving forward is key. I like what I like, I respect what you like, and you do the same for me.

My question to all is are there really that many fans who dislike Mon-El or are they just very vocal? Personally, I enjoy him. I think there is a great on-screen chemistry between Kara and Min-El. I believe t hat the EPs made a mistake in rushing the romance. They could have let develop over two seasons. That may have allayed angry fans.

Argo

I think it is both. The vocal ones really dont like what the writers did to both his and Kara's characters especially with regards to the romantic relationship. If the romantic part had been pushed off after he moved passed being a jerk (so he was not activly being a jerk to his girlfriend who we like) it might not have been as big a thing.

I have seen though a number of sites that do episode / season / character / write ups and re caps mention a lot of their issues with the writing of the character as well as the season (mostly the second half). So I do think there are a good number who did not like his character from the perspecive of how he was written as well as how he seemed to become the focus of the show and Kara / Supergirl was was relagated to a prop for him. Most of these that I have read actually either totally skip any other ship dicussion or mention it just in passing (ie: dropped the POC for a slave owner, liked supercat but that wont happen, liked supercorp but that wont happen, etc). So it is not just vocal shippers although that is for sure out there.

If you want to explore what their issues were outside of the ship wars just google something like supergirl's mon-el problem and you will find a bunch of them.

Like most things in life there's not one single simple solution. Why don't we use this thread to brainstorm ideas on ways to respond when we see another fan behaving badly on social media.

I think that's a fantastic idea!!

Not sure if this counts as a way to combat bad fandom behavior, but maybe when the official Supergirl twitter account tweets something we can all (for those of us with twitter accounts) let them know how much we appreciate all their hard work. I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing their posts overrun by hashtags like #karamelisoverparty and #karamelendgame. I'd rather the SG account see tweets supporting their show not ships.

What become controversial is in either being placed into a "shipping box" or labeled an "anti" when I express them.

To me, what became controversial is fans taking their anger and frustration out on the cast, crew and others.

Labels only served to further divide the fans and cause unrest within the fandom.

I didn't see any hate or alarming items in the thread here so I let it go. Folks have continued to be passionate about their opinions but so far the name calling, attacks and snide comments seem to have been respectful. Of course I request that at any point if any of you feel things are getting out of hand to email me right away at the contact page and I will get on it asap.

As for the Mon-El character analysis going on. I don't mind it here. I think that because it is a large source of the division in the fandom, it's ok to talk through. Respectfully of course.

Although I realize his character is a big reason for the hate plaguing the fandom, I thought the thread was meant to focus on the bad behavior of fans, not him.

Mon-El is a very touchy subject here. There are some very passionate opinions surrounding him and I didn't want to see the discussion around the toxicity of our fandom and how to change it turn into an internet fight over him. That was my only concern.

thing is Mon-El isnt the real problem, he is simply the the current target because he happens to be in the way of an agenda campaigned by the supercorp fandom. Anyone in the way of that agenda gets attacked. I point to Jack Spheer played by Rahul Kohli as evidence who expressed his distaste for some of those fans because he received enough hate during his 1 episode stint to make a public statement.

just want to point out, and I know it's easy to forget to make the distinction, it's not the whole Supercorp group. There are actually many that are just as upset as everyone else.

The "agenda" excuse ignores the fact that people have real, valid reasons for not liking mon el. It's a way to discredit people. I didn't mean to insinuate that you were homophobic, and I'm sorry that it seemed that way. That was not my intention. But saying that people only hate mon el for a f/f shipping agenda is homophobic.

The problem is that while valid reasons exist, some people do things that are completely not valid.

A good example is the trashing of the actor who played Jack just because he was cast. Jack wasn't even on screen and the actor was already sent hate messages. Something that isn't reasonable in any interpretation possible.

Similarly, a lot of things have been used as "reasons" that were flat out untrue (like "Kara and Mon-El are blood related in the comics", something that has never been a thing in any comic incarnation).

People don't need "reasons" to prefer one ship over another, most people just gravitate towards who they find more hot or whose story archetype (ie friends to lovers, childhood sweethearts, enemies falling for each other) they like most. But if some people keep up listing things that are flat out untrue or unreasonable, like sending hate mail to the actor of a character who hasn't even aired yet, that's when other people will grow weary of those supposed reasons.

Not to mention people who call Mon-El abusive, yet see nothing wrong with other characters who do things that are easily comparable if not worse than things Mon-El has done in the relationship.

That's why a lot of the times people like what they like and they then use supposed reasons to explain why nobody else should like them and why the writers should stop writing them.

And that's when it moves away from something being a "reason" to really being more like laundry lists in a pseudo political argument about why your position of "I think this couple is cuter than that couple" is somehow "more right" and more morally righteous. It makes it feel like rather than watching the show and taking it for face value and talking about what you actually see on the show, some people start parsing it for arguments they can use in their laundry lists so they can beat the laundry lists of all the other people.

And that's why people start calling it "agenda". That it seems like some people have a goal, to "defeat" the other couples and have their couple reign supreme and they look for "weapons" in this "fight".

I don't need a laundry list of reasons to dislike a character. Usually there is like one scene at the most, then I start not liking the character, but to me that's it. I just move on to liking the characters I like. And unless the character I started to dislike does something spectacular to make me like them, I pretty much ignore them and don't look for new reasons to not like them.

SUCH a great response and write-up, Thalolli!! Here's MY two cents that I haven't really given. I've stayed out of most of the argument because I just want to be a Supergirl fan. The following ideas could go in the Mon-El thread, but the ending thoughts fit for ANY fan. So, I'm placing my thoughts here.

"Not to mention people who call Mon-El abusive, yet see nothing wrong with other characters who do things that are easily comparable if not worse than things Mon-El has done in the relationship."

I.e.... Maggie consitantly lying to Alex....Maggie cheating AND lying about it. Hmm... Isn't that exactly what Mon-El was doing--lying because he was ashamed of his past?

Then there's Kara. She hasn't been a Saint. Or James being ok with taking a baseball bat to thieves. Etc etc etc etc

The point is... First: this is a show.. fiction. Not real. I've read comments after comments on social media that very much concern me....people blurring the lines between what's real and what's fiction.

Second: People in life AND in fiction are imperfect. I've read comments made against Mon-El and many times have found myself thinking, "Yikes...if that's the standard that person has for a real relationship, that person will forever be a party of one." Example: my parents have been married since 1968. I've heard doors slammed. They've argued....and, oh my gosh...yes... sometimes even in public. But, that's reality, it's human, its growing. Relationships can be ugly because humans are... imperfect. My parents are incredible, and they are incredibly in love. That's what real relationships are like...giving, and taking, and learning, and forgiving, and forgiving again.

Yes, there ARE abusive relationships. There IS child abuse, spousal abuse, partner abuse. I taught 4 years at a lock-down facility for youth from all over the world... Famous kids to even a girl who lived by hopping train after train after train, to a girl who lived in a cardboard box in a Washington D.C. park. Kids who had been molested. Kids who had molested others. Little boys who were sold for sex so their moms could get drugs. I've seen it all. But, an argument between parents or an arguments between a parent and child, especially in a ficticious tv show written by a group of writers does in no way automatically mean they are headed down an evil or milicious path.

Sure wish some people in fandoms would bring it down a notch...step away and regroup himself/herself. I fear those who have so much vitrol against Mon-El or any character for that matter, have some deep seeded issues that need addressing. I fear many are projecting their real life issues onto a ficticional show. I fear they have a warped view on reality. I worry they don't realize there is no perfect relationship... that arguments or stumbling don't always mean devistation and abuse.

Well they're not a SC shipper, they just strongly dislike Mon-El.

I get your point. But you're going about it all the wrong way. You're calling all people who dislike Mon-El SC shippers, which I've shown is wrong. That's why I tend to make myself clear in saying 'some' instead of calling out the entire SC fandom.

Would you assume that a huge majority of the people who dislike Lena are Karamels? By your logic I would think, yes. But I'm sure there are people who dislike her regardless of shipping. I'm not saying you're wrong to think that a lot of SC shippers dislike Mon-El, or that they didn't send Rahul hate. But the same is said for all those KM and Sanvers shippers who dislike Lena or spread hate about Katie.

My point is that the negativity in the shipdom goes all ways. The difference is that the SC side is much louder and upfront about it (which isn't a good thing) whereas KM and Sanvers sides are on the quieter side.

I think that joke had little to do with it being a lesbian ship and much more with the reputation that Kara/Lena shippers specifically have built for themselves for being rude, aggressive and unreasonable, because of the actions of several loud and active members. And while there are no doubt rude, aggressive and unreasonable fans for all other character combinations too, it seems the volume of the aggression in this particular ship happened to leave the most impression on the cast.

I'm sure if all Kara/Lena shippers up and left then some other group would take over the mantle of being the meanest and rudest. But right now it happens to be them because they are the loudest and most belligerent.

It's just hard for me to see people as fans when the first thing they do is turn around and trash Melissa's personal morals and relationship history. If you turn that much on a person you claimed to like just a day earlier, how much of a fan can you really be? Her supposed moral failings didn't bother you before.

It's a good example of the kind of tunnel vision shippers can get. Everything that is or seems in support of them gets blindly worshipped, Everything that is or seems to be in their way must be destroyed at all costs. Nothing else matters, just the ship and their personal feelings over being denied the ship.

Of course there is nothing wrong with shipping across sexuality lines, but if people are that rude and aggressive about it, can you really be surprised that you develop a negative reputation? Not because it's lesbian, but because of the rudeness involved? I'd like to think that shippers of straight couples who are that verbally abusive towards the cast, the show and fellow fans would also develop a negative reputation.

Yes some SC shippers take things too far, but so do some KM shippers (there are posts in this thread listing the things they have done). The fact that you refuse to accept that is baffling to me. How blinded can a person be?

The point is that volume matters. And that's why SC shippers have developed such a negative reputation apparently up to include the actual cast members.

Just because both sides of an argument have done some wrong, doesn't mean that they have done equal amounts of wrong. This is a false equivalency that people use all the times in politics.

Somebody else here posted a good potential explanation of why that is, that that isn't because SC shippers are inherently more immoral than let's say Sanvers shippers, but the circumstances put SC into where they are the aggressors while Karamel and Sanvers can be enjoyers of the show. They don't have as much of a need to change the show to their personal preferences because the show already delivers them their personal preferences. So they have less reason to be aggressive about it and attack the show and the people who make it.

Some are still belligerent and plenty of SC are not belligerent, but in general is seems that SC shippers are the loudest at the moment up to the extent that even cast members who are not directly involved in the conflict (the way Melissa, Katie, Chris and Rahul were) have heard of their negative reputation.

If let's say fans of Winn and Kara had as many instances of fans being mean and aggressive and demanding their couple get together or at least for Winn and Kara to never have any other partners then that fanbase would be the one that creeps out the cast.

Previously....
"It's not about homophobia, it's about invalidating a part of the fan community"
Now....
"It's not about that, it's about homophobia"

Readying defenses for the loop game

Definition of homophobia: the dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people

Not once did I say that there was any form of homophobia shown. I've been stating point blank that it was a hurtful thing to do. I've never stated that what was done was because the cast doesn't like or are prejudiced against the gays.