CW Crisis on Infinite Earths

My concern with the Crisis on Infinite Earths is that I almost think they (being the producers) have put themselves into a predictable outcome. Either one of the following will most likely occur:

A). Kara and Barry will die as they did in the Comic version. But, because both are the stars of shows that are ongoing, they both will have to somehow be revived rather quickly. Which, if not done very well, will invalidate anything they did in the Crisis and will leave fans disappointed.

B). Oliver Queen will take their place and die because that show is ending and his death could be considered final. In this scenario, it will seem almost like a cop-out that Kara and Barry weren't sacrificed.

Either of these two scenarios is predictable and so, I'm not sure how they will be able to spin this to create much apprehension. Maybe it's just me (which is very possible), but I am always more interested in seeing something new, something created out of the writers imagination that will leave me on the edge of my seat, not knowing what will happen and how it will end than to see an established story that has a predictable ending.

C. Of course, none could die and in a way, that would be a complete let-down. I know, I'm hard to please.

One thing that I don't want to see happen is a merging of the universes. I like Supergirl in her own world. I haven't seen a cross-over yet that has utilized her the way she should be - she always has to be nerfed big-time and having her in the same universe with so many other superheroes will just compound that problem. Plus, it brings in the complaints of - well, why doesn't Barry come and help? or so and so?

As far as what I want in the crossover? I want Kara/Supergirl to have as much of a presence in it as Barry and Oliver. That's pretty simple I think. I want Supergirl to be shown as the most powerful....why? because she is and should be written that way. If they are worried about her defeating the villain to easily, then write a better villain.

As for me and my excitement for the story? I'm very excited, however I am also very cautious, if not skeptical that they can write as interesting of a story as the comics. So, I would much rather go into the crossover with expectations low, rather than go in hyped and that being drenched with the cold water of CW writing.

To sort of balance my picture yesterday out is one from the women's side of the aisle. And it yet shows once again how Melissa Benoist is the queen of junk food. It could also be a somewhat subtle reminder that Halloween is about three weeks away. This picture was taken from an Instagram story of Elisabeth Tolloch, who plays Lois Lane to Tyler's Clark Kent/Superman. Look at how Mel is just eyeing that plateful of sweets.




Melissa Marie Benoist...what on Earth makes you look as cute as a puppy??

Regardless of the comic mythology, the producers will not mess with their strongest shows, Supergirl and Flash. I do not pretend to know how they will deal with it. But, I hope they bring in a whole new crew of talented writers to Supergirl. The current ones, including the Show Runners, lack vision and quality. Change is needed.

Argo

Okay, it's been 2 full days, and I still can't stop thinking about Crisis on Infinite Earths. About what will or won't happen, about who will or wont be involved,and about which heroes may bite the big one.

GAH! It's gonna be suck a long year! Sad to say, but I already care way more about that event than any of the anti-alien storylines in Supergirl.

I still can't wait for the show to return...But it just signifies how much this announcement blew anything Supergirl or Arrow, as individual shows, had going, this year.

Going back to the deal Oliver made to save Barry and Kara in Elseworlds...

What if the deal to "keep the balance" was the expediting of how soon the Crisis would occur? Because the future news paper in "The Flash" has always indicated that it would occur in 2024. But it's now coming in 2019.

It seems the speeding up of the threat would an entirely possible trade off for keeping Barry and Kara alive through Elseworlds.

Just a thought. Naturally, it's all speculation (as this thread will mostly be until Fall of next year).

With upfront coming next week and along with it the inevitable CoIE questions I thought I’d bring this thread back up. Personally I didn’t really like Elseworlds and am not particularly looking forward to CoIE. My feeling is I want it over with already so we can move on. I fear that CoIE will overshadow talks about each individual show at SDCC.

I humbly request that forum discussion about CoIE happen in this thread rather than in a more general discussion thread. I realize there will be some spillover. There was a separate thread for Elseworlds and that worked out well IMO.

Those who want to talk about CoIE have a clear place to do so and those who aren’t looking forward to it and/or want to limit spoilers can simply ignore it. This seems fair to everyone.

I dont think she got shafted in the 2017 crossover, she was the central figure in that...I think she was totally left out of the Elseworld crossover....bringing in Superman was a ratings grab that did nothing to up the ratings, it just ticked off Supergirl fans because there was no need for him to be there other than for ratings. You already had a Super there.....use her.

Well it did get him off world and for the most part stop the why doesn't she call her cousin nonsense. The last scene with him proposing was completely unnecessary. I'm waiting for the outrage if he isn't in CoIE. I do like Tyler's interpretation nothing at all against him but the character should have a very limited presence on her show.

I also think Crisis on Earth-X has been the best of the crossovers. It had a good balance and was very much like one continuous miniseries rather than four separate shows, they shouldn't have abandoned that concept. It flowed so much better because they weren't nearly as concerned with highlighting certain characters during a particular hour. Heck neither the aborted wedding ceremony nor the actual "I Do's" took place on Flash or Arrow.

I don't want Supergirl's 100th episode anywhere, in anyway near the crossover. Already far too many characters in the crossover. I want her 100th all Supergirl.

I agree with Argo about the change in writers, which was why I'm excited they brought in Jay Faerber.

Oliver, Barry, and Kara are the TV trinity and I can see them and Superman taking the leadership role during the Crisis.

I dont see the need for Superman, anymore than I saw the need in the last crossover. You have a Super.....use her this time around.

Personally, Supergirl dying/almost dying has lost most if not all of its impact through repetition. ("Oh, this is where she gets beaten to death--again..."

I would be against an extended absence for the character, as we hardly got enough of her in this season!

Personally, Supergirl dying/almost dying has lost most if not all of its impact through repetition. ("Oh, this is where she gets beaten to death--again..."

I would be against an extended absence for the character, as we hardly got enough of her in this season!

Yes, to this. Kara’s already willingly risked her life on kamikaze missions at least twice and almost died a couple more times. IMO she’s already proven that she has the heart and mind of a true hero. Melissa and Tyler already did the Superman holding Supergirl pose from the CoIE comic so personality I don’t need to see it again.

kdogg87, first off, I understand that you want to see as faithful an adaptation of COIE as possible, and it's easy to see why! It is THE crossover--the gold standard. I also get why you would want to see the adaptation honor the sacrifices the characters made in the original.

My own thinking, though, is that the Arrowverse takes elements from the comics and runs them through the CWDC filter to suit its needs. COIE will be no exception. The prominent "trinity" of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman is recreated in Green Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl, so I see their respective roles must be somewhat different in the Arrowverse version, where they feature more prominently.

As for what I want to see from this new version, I don't have specific plot threads or outcomes in mind. I believe that the stakes and consequences should be real. I would point to Crisis of Earth X as an example that worked because the threat to the characters was large enough in scale--and personal for many characters. Losing Martin Stein gave the victory a tangible cost. And it did that because the loss was final.

So going in, I'm not saying so-and-so must die, or someone else must live. (Although there is some pretty heavy foreshadowing going on with regard to one character.) Rather, I'm simply saying the writers should honor the original by finding the story that works for these versions of the characters. I am not sure what that looks like, but I trust I will know it when I see it.

At their best, these shows recreate the fun and emotions I had in reading the latest issue of a comic book. For COIE, I expect much the same--something thrilling in the spirit and shape of the original comics, with enough differences to surprise me a bit as well. If they pull that off, I will be beyond ecstatic.

Ok Kdogg now that you’ve clarified your question it helped me solidify my own position, thanks for that. My short answer is none of the above. I don’t have alternatives to Kara and Barry’s arcs from CoIE because I don’t feel the need to see the comic versions brought life with the TV characters in the first place. I might feel different with a movie but I don’t think CoIE, especially a comic accurate one, is an appropriate story to do with TV shows that are continuing.

I didn’t grow up as a “comic book person” and what I know about CoIE is it rebooted the DC universe to fix decades of continuity errors and killed a lot of characters including Kara and Barry in the process. I understand that it’s considered a pivotal moment, so totally get the iconic status for some. I want the foundation of the Supergirl and Flash shows that we have to be perfected not blown up. If they can do as LibertyPrime says use the spirit of the story to create some emotional stakes and consequences (which we already have with one show ending) then cool. I’m worried that Supergirl and Flash will be fundamentally changed for the sake upping the scale of the yearly mega crossover and to me that’s not a good reason.

I’m going to back away from this thread because it’s not meant for me but for those who are fans of the comic version of CoIE and desire some version of it on the small screen.

It is pretty obvious that it is going to be Oliver.

.

From the people at Hollywood North comes these pictures of Melissa and Grant meeting with a comic book legend...namely Marv Wolfman.

Not sure if this would fit here, but I thought I'd try. Not sure if anyone has seen this photo. I saw it on Superman Homepage, but am unsure as to the original source.

It's a picture of two Supermen and a certain Scarlet Speedster. Of course one of the Supermen is Tyler Hoechlin.

I'm not a comic book connoisseur but, even I know of Crisis on Earth and what that means for Supergirl. By no means do I want a permanent death of our girl but, I also don't want to see someone else, like Oliver, step in and be the true hero, sacrificing himself not only for the common good but, for Kara and Barry. A sacrifice like that is the ultimate sacrifice and historically put Kara up there in status, above other superheroes because of it. And I don't want that taken away from her.

I'm not really that concerned about what Kara's "death" would mean for the show because I think they could easily find a fix for it. I wouldn't want half of a season without Kara but, I also don't think they could put a fix in immediately and not have it lose some of its impact. So, what that looks like, I don't know - they have a year to figure it out though. One other thing, if indeed Kara is one of those who dies, it best happen in the Supergirl hour and we better get more than a couple of minutes of the impact on Kara's family, friends and National City.

A possible theory might be that this season ends with Kara converting the Red Daughter Supergirl into a good guy and maybe it is she that sacrifices - which would lose a bit of the impact but, would solve two problems - a second SG and how to sacrifice Kara. Or, maybe our Kara sacrifices and dies temporarily while the Red Daughter takes over for her for a bit until she returns?

@LibertyPrime

Agreed, gonna be a long year.

Not trying to be contrarian. I just want to explain WHY I want to see these iconic scenes happen, and why they can still be incredibly impactful.

In this medium, those deaths can have a lot of weight, even if temporary. Live action can arguably portray more emotion as to why they are making their sacrifices. Furthermore, one of the things that can make a death so powerful, even when it's temporary, is it's effect on the supporting characters. It's something we don't get much of in the Crisis book, because SO much else is happening, and everyone's memories of Supergirl are gone after the universe is rebooted.

Imagine Kara visualizing Clark with his newborn child, as she flies in to take the blast that was meant for him? Imagine Clark's shock and grief at seeing his cousin perish before him...his little cousin, whom he once dropped off at the Danvers' house to keep safe, giving her life for his. Imagine the guilt he would feel that it was a blast meant for him...Or the concern in Alex's eyes when she sees when Kara doesn't return with the other heroes, only to see Superman walk in, cradling her lifeless form. Imagine getting to see everyone who cares about Kara react to the realization that she's gone. Alex mourning the loss of her sister. J'onn, almost feeling like a father, mourning the loss of yet another child. Somebody, probably James, having to explain to Lena why Kara isn't coming back (if she doesn't already know the secret by then)

Imagine Barry's life flashing before his eyes as he runs faster and faster...faster than he's ever gone, to save the multiverse, and his family. His time with his mother. His youth in the West household. His early adventures with Cisco and Caitlynn. His wedding to Iris. Getting to meet his daughter from the future, but knowing that he's going to miss out on raising her. He races faster and faster, until he fades into nothing, thinking only of his loved ones. And at the same time, you get his family reacting to the sacrifice. Iris losing her husband. Or Joe reacting to the loss of his adoptive son. Cisco and Caitlynn, to whom Barry is closer than family. And Nora, if she's still around, facing literally her worst fear, her father disappearing before her.

These are the scenes I CRAVE, because even if I KNOW the hero is coming back, I well up with emotion. And I LOVE when a TV show can make me feel emotions that intensely.

It's the same reason I still get teary eyed when I watch the end of "Solitude", where Alex comes clean about killing Astra. I've seen it. I KNOW it's going to be okay. But I still tear up because I empathize with what the characters are going through in that moment. Particularly when J'onn goes to leave the room, and Kara grabs his arm. It gets me...every...freaking...time.

And then, because they do have their own shows, we get to see the eventual (and wonderful) return of these characters. Whether it be at the end of the Crisis, or a few episodes down the line...We get the possibility of a whole new set of emotions from their loved ones when they return.

Not gonna lie, I got a little choked up when writing some of those examples. Particularly imagining the possible reactions from Cisco, Joe, and J'onn.


On a different piece of the Crisis topic, it is on INFINITE EARTHS. So we could get the opportunity to see more new (or old) characters from other universes. Who do you guys think will show up? Who do you guys HOPE will show up?

I'm fairly confident we'll see the return of the 90's Flash. I don't know the likelihood, but I'd like to see some Smallville characters, as well. But all things considered, that's a Hail Mary.

It'd be cool to see Earth 90 John Stewart (Diggle) Green Lantern?

I'd like to see more throwbacks to old movies or shows, even if they are just cameos. It can even new actors (or even extras) in old suits. It'd be cool to see the Batgirl suit from Birds of Prey. Maybe someone in one of the Burton Batman suits?

Brandon Routh as an alternate reality Superman? Characters from Titans? (still a Berlanti production, after all).

There are a LOT of possibilities, and I'd like to get your thoughts!

Something you said, Sully, got me thinking of another possibility....

Red Daughter came from splitting Kara. Perhaps, killing one unites them--somewhat along the lines of Reign absorbing the other World Killers.

But, whatever happens if she does die, we saw what happens in Justice League.

Should it be Oliver who dies, he'll have to be brought back--even IF it was Arrow's final season--simply because a dead Oliver would leave half a season left of Arrow without its star. That doesn't work, either. So really? I hope it's still Kara who dies a martyr, then be brought back an episode later after they let it all sink in.

True, it's entirely possible for Kara to die and come back. I'm not a person who thinks the shows need to mirror the comics so I'm ok with that or her not dying. I do think it's important to see her, as she did last night, go on what she thinks is a suicide mission to save the world. I have a solution to the Oliver dies and Arrow is left with half season issue. What if Arrow as a show ends in spring 2019 but Stephen and other actors from the show still appear in CoIE in fall 2019. CoIE would actually take place on the shows that would continue Supergirl, Flash, LoT, and the presumed Batwoman show but Oliver and company will have parts.